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WD Shooting Flames at High Idle |
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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Hey all,
So I have been tinkering with my 1951 WD for the last few days. I bought her a year or two back and she ran great. I took her home and I changed all the oils in her. After that ( about a week) she stopped running. The only oil I have yet to change is the engine oil. After replacing the cap and points and all 4 spark plugs I couldn't start her. She sat for a bit over a year and I wanted to get her running for the Indiana GOTO. I tested the spark, and she had it. I cleaned the carb and put in a carb kit. After a squirt of starting fluid she ran for a bit. I adjusted the carb so she would run at an idle. As my I let her run I noticed that it was throwing sparks. When it shut off hot I could not start it again. Today I tried to run her at full throttle and when I got to about 75% it started popping and throwing flames out the exhaust. When I dialed it back, it would even out. I tried this a few times and it did the same thing. It felt to me like there was more heat coming off the manifold than normal. I shut it down and wanted to see what you fellas thought. What should I do next? Thanks! |
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22825 |
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Running lean , they can run hot. You maybe have carbon build up on top the cylinders and it's getting burned out.
I would run a can of Sea Foam thru the gas and work it hard (like plowing) with maybe a quarter turn open on the main jet. |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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I will run a can of sea Foam through it. Where should I initially place the Main Jet? I don't have a plow or anything to run her hard, just running. I have a plow but its a 3 point and my WD has the non-snap coupler hitch.
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SHAMELESS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: EAST NE Points: 29486 |
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buy a cigar, quik way to light it!
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Not good enough spark to burn the fuel. Adjust timing. Bad coil or condenser. MACK
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corbinstein ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Jul 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 796 |
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Drive it at night and have some fun!
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Dave H ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Central IL Points: 3591 |
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My initial thoughts are the same as Mack's.
Have you checked the timing. If way slow they will go to melt down hot when worked, or at least my JD did. |
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jange01 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 25 May 2014 Location: Sandown NH Points: 38 |
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Check ignition timing. May be late (retarded). Ideally check and set timing at full no load high rpm.
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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OK, so here is what has happened and what I did.
I timed the tractor to the F mark on the flywheel. I then got the tractor to run, but it ran very bad and very hot. After making some adjustments it went back to running very rough. The manifold got very hot. After still shooting flames when you come up on the throttle we shut it off and it dieseled. I had to shut off the fuel and blow the throttle all the way down. So we did this: Checked the Compression: 1-60, 2-20, 3-55, 4-60 Adjusted valve clearance to 0.012 Checked Compression again: 1:60, 2-50, 3-50, 4-60 Timed according to the book. --Took Cylinder 1 to compression --Saw F mark and disregarded as book said --Stopped on what I believe is the TDC line --Adjusted Distributor so that the point just open. Put everything back together and tried to turn her over Nothing. Even tried a spray of ether. Nothing other than turns over faster. Ideas? Checked Plug gap and they are all new plugs. Thanks!! |
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Robacpuller ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Apr 2016 Location: Wisconsin Points: 248 |
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Sounds like the valves need reseating. Take head off and grind valves or lap them.
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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What does the compression need to be?
Is that something I take to a shop to do? I have never pulled a head or have done a valve job before. Thank you |
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HudCo ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 29 Jan 2013 Location: Plymouth Utah Points: 3931 |
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problbley needs valves done . but a cylinder leak down test will tell whats leaking and how bad
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Did you check the timing wide open or idle? Did you check compression with all plugs out and a good battery and charger on battery? 6 or 12 volt? Is the advance in distributed free? MACK
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dawntreader74 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Oct 2013 Location: Manteno Points: 1770 |
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it may be 180 off on timing mark' it will run but sure will get ext'' very hot' its out of time
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Gary Burnett ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 3093 |
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Did you check the valve setting? For some reason people seem to want to set the valves too tight so they don't close up tight.On those tractors you need to have some noticable gap between the rocker and the valve.I just bought a D10 that someone had adjusted the valves so several of them weren't closing and I've run into that more than a few times over the years.
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Fred in Pa ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Hanover Pa. Points: 9210 |
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How hot of spark do u have .Where did you get points and cond. .I found that Agco and any other after market points and cond. are junk ,Buy Blue streak at Auto parts or go to NAPA for points and cond. .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead. If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED. |
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automaticdave ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 20 Jan 2011 Location: Granton, ON Points: 256 |
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Check the firing order first !
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Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |
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I had a WD that acted like that. Turned out to be two scored sleeves and pistons due to wrist pins being installed wrong. I figure the pins were rubbing on the sleeve to get red hot and causing back firing and rough running, especially at higher engine speed. And no amount of adjusted improved anything. I was pretty disappointed to see that when I finally took the head off.
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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Run a cylinder leak down test will tell whats leaking and how bad
---> I will get that tool from my friend and run that test. Did you check the timing wide open or idle? ---> I set timing according to the marks on the flywheel. I have not been able to start the tractor since. Did you check compression with all plugs out and a good battery and charger on battery? ---> I checked with all plugs out and by hand cranking the tractor 6 or 12 volt? ---> 6 Is the advance in distributed free? ---> How do I check?
Did you check the valve setting?
---> I set them all to 0.012 cold Where did you get points and cond. ---> Points were from NAPA, Condenser was also from there Check Firing Order. --->I have 1 on 7 o'clock position -----2 on 10 o'clock -----4 on 2 o'clock -----3 on 5 o'clock Thanks! Edited by KD8NGV - 14 Jun 2016 at 7:47am |
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Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |
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compression needs to be checked spinning with a good starter for best results and you should spin the engine about the same speed and duration for each cylinder. If you put a spoonful or so of oil in the cylinder and the compression goes up by quite a bit from before adding the oil, it shows your rings are worn.
Set your valves at .015 cold. Edited by Lonn - 14 Jun 2016 at 7:55am |
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |
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Find #1 TDC and then check to see if the distributor rotor is at or near the #1 lug of distributor cap. To find #1 TDC slowly crank the engine over with your thumb over the spark plug hole until your feel compression then continue turning over until TDC mark is lined up on flywheel. Both valves should be closed with .015 clearance.
You got a book? Edited by Lonn - 14 Jun 2016 at 8:02am |
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |
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Opps, I see you seem to already know how to find TDC
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Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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And just to confirm:
The #1 lug is the point at which the wire from the coil comes into the distro. The TDC mark is AFTER the F mark on the flywheel ( a few inches away after you pass it ) |
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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Lonn, tonight I will do the oil compression test and a dry compression both with the battery and also set the clearance to .015. And yes, I do have the book. it is actually the original to the tractor with the sale sheet and check off in it. I am blessed!
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Steve in NJ ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 12007 |
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I'm with Automatic Dave. CHECK THE FIRING ORDER. You may have a wire crossed. My experience with these AC engines running hot is either they have a plugged radiator or the timing is way off. They don't have a characteristic of running hot to start off with even on the hottest day of the year working. I'm thinking you have a couple problems here. We'll drop the plugged radiator assumption because I don't think that applies here. First, you need to do a compression test spinning the engine over with the starter motor. Hand crankin' it ain't gonna cut it for accuracy and comparibility for compression. With 20 psi in a cylinder, the engine shouldn't even run. If it runs occasionally, there's gotta' be more compression than 20 psi in there. Flames out the stack- could mean to rich a mix and the unburned fuel is igniting in the muffler stack causing the flames. Black smoke would also indicate an overfueling problem along with the fireworks out the stack. If the manifold glows, that's usually a lean mix issue. MAKE SURE THE TIMING IS CORRECT USING TDC if Distributor fired. Make sure it has fresh fuel in it. Crappy fuel will make it run like crap and do crazy things also.
Steve@B&B |
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Gerald J. ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |
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A simple first check for centrifugal advance working is with the distributor cap off, turn the rotor in the direction it turns when running. It should allow advancing 15 or 20 degrees and when released must snap back to the static position. If the weights or springs are broken it will move but not snap back. If the pivot is rusted fast it won't move at all. Sometimes the maintenance for that inner mechanism is neglected, needs a drop of oil into the felt in the hollow shaft under the rotor every year or two.
Then with it running and a timing light the ignition should be close to top dead center at idle and must be more advanced the faster the engine is running. Lots of flame out the exhaust is a sign of potentially retarded ignition timing or exhaust valves leaking or both. Retarded timing can be hard on exhaust valves. Gerald J. |
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dawntreader74 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Oct 2013 Location: Manteno Points: 1770 |
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take the cap off an see if number 1 is pointing at number 1 cyl' front of motor. you can be on timing mark an still be 180 off. thank it's 1243' fire order. it will get hot an kick out the pipe if it's not in time
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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Number 1 on the cap and rotor should be at around 6-7 o'clock or at 1 o clock?
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Lonn ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Назарово,Russia Points: 29817 |
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Depends on how the last person assembled the distributor to the engine. To be factory right, staring down at the cap from behind, #1 should be at the 10 or 11 o'clock position. But it can be anywhere depending on where the previous "mechanic" set it.
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-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink I am a Russian Bot |
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KD8NGV ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Oct 2010 Location: Ohio Points: 178 |
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How can I tell how it is set?
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