WD Shooting Flames at High Idle
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=124016
Printed Date: 07 Oct 2025 at 8:53pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: WD Shooting Flames at High Idle
Posted By: KD8NGV
Subject: WD Shooting Flames at High Idle
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 7:48pm
Hey all,
So I have been tinkering with my 1951 WD for the last few days. I bought her a year or two back and she ran great. I took her home and I changed all the oils in her. After that ( about a week) she stopped running. The only oil I have yet to change is the engine oil. After replacing the cap and points and all 4 spark plugs I couldn't start her. She sat for a bit over a year and I wanted to get her running for the Indiana GOTO. I tested the spark, and she had it. I cleaned the carb and put in a carb kit. After a squirt of starting fluid she ran for a bit. I adjusted the carb so she would run at an idle. As my I let her run I noticed that it was throwing sparks. When it shut off hot I could not start it again. Today I tried to run her at full throttle and when I got to about 75% it started popping and throwing flames out the exhaust. When I dialed it back, it would even out. I tried this a few times and it did the same thing. It felt to me like there was more heat coming off the manifold than normal. I shut it down and wanted to see what you fellas thought. What should I do next?
Thanks!
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Replies:
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:00pm
Running lean , they can run hot. You maybe have carbon build up on top the cylinders and it's getting burned out.
I would run a can of Sea Foam thru the gas and work it hard (like plowing) with maybe a quarter turn open on the main jet.
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 8:04pm
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I will run a can of sea Foam through it. Where should I initially place the Main Jet? I don't have a plow or anything to run her hard, just running. I have a plow but its a 3 point and my WD has the non-snap coupler hitch.
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Posted By: SHAMELESS
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 10:46pm
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buy a cigar, quik way to light it!
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2016 at 10:46pm
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Not good enough spark to burn the fuel. Adjust timing. Bad coil or condenser. MACK
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Posted By: corbinstein
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 6:31am
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Drive it at night and have some fun!
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Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 6:44am
My initial thoughts are the same as Mack's.
Have you checked the timing.
If way slow they will go to melt down hot when worked, or at least my JD did.
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Posted By: jange01
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2016 at 12:00pm
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Check ignition timing. May be late (retarded). Ideally check and set timing at full no load high rpm.
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 8:54pm
OK, so here is what has happened and what I did.
I timed the tractor to the F mark on the flywheel. I then got the tractor to run, but it ran very bad and very hot. After making some adjustments it went back to running very rough. The manifold got very hot. After still shooting flames when you come up on the throttle we shut it off and it dieseled. I had to shut off the fuel and blow the throttle all the way down.
So we did this:
Checked the Compression: 1-60, 2-20, 3-55, 4-60
Adjusted valve clearance to 0.012
Checked Compression again: 1:60, 2-50, 3-50, 4-60
Timed according to the book.
--Took Cylinder 1 to compression
--Saw F mark and disregarded as book said
--Stopped on what I believe is the TDC line
--Adjusted Distributor so that the point just open.
Put everything back together and tried to turn her over
Nothing. Even tried a spray of ether. Nothing other than turns over faster.
Ideas?
Checked Plug gap and they are all new plugs.
Thanks!!
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Posted By: Robacpuller
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 9:08pm
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Sounds like the valves need reseating. Take head off and grind valves or lap them.
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 9:10pm
What does the compression need to be?
Is that something I take to a shop to do? I have never pulled a head or have done a valve job before.
Thank you
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Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 10:13pm
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problbley needs valves done . but a cylinder leak down test will tell whats leaking and how bad
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 10:17pm
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Did you check the timing wide open or idle? Did you check compression with all plugs out and a good battery and charger on battery? 6 or 12 volt? Is the advance in distributed free? MACK
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Posted By: dawntreader74
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2016 at 11:58pm
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it may be 180 off on timing mark' it will run but sure will get ext'' very hot' its out of time
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Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 3:06am
Did you check the valve setting? For some reason people seem to want to set the valves too tight so they don't close up tight.On those tractors you need to have some noticable gap between the rocker and the valve.I just bought a D10 that someone had adjusted the valves so several of them weren't closing and I've run into that more than a few times over the years.
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Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 6:23am
How hot of spark do u have .Where did you get points and cond. .I found that Agco and any other after market points and cond. are junk ,Buy Blue streak at Auto parts or go to NAPA for points and cond. .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
If all else fails ,Read all that is PRINTED.
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Posted By: automaticdave
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 7:07am
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Check the firing order first !
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 7:11am
I had a WD that acted like that. Turned out to be two scored sleeves and pistons due to wrist pins being installed wrong. I figure the pins were rubbing on the sleeve to get red hot and causing back firing and rough running, especially at higher engine speed. And no amount of adjusted improved anything. I was pretty disappointed to see that when I finally took the head off.
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Wink
I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 7:47am
Run a cylinder leak down test will tell whats leaking and how bad
---> I will get that tool from my friend and run that test.
Did you check the timing wide open or idle?
---> I set timing according to the marks on the flywheel. I have not been able to start the tractor since.
Did you check compression
with all plugs out and a good battery and charger on battery?
---> I checked with all plugs out and by hand cranking the tractor
6 or 12
volt?
---> 6
Is the advance in distributed free?
---> How do I check?
Did you check the valve setting?
---> I set them all to 0.012 cold
Where did you get points and cond.
---> Points were from NAPA, Condenser was also from there
Check Firing Order.
--->I have 1 on 7 o'clock position
-----2 on 10 o'clock
-----4 on 2 o'clock
-----3 on 5 o'clock
Thanks!
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 7:54am
compression needs to be checked spinning with a good starter for best results and you should spin the engine about the same speed and duration for each cylinder. If you put a spoonful or so of oil in the cylinder and the compression goes up by quite a bit from before adding the oil, it shows your rings are worn.
Set your valves at .015 cold.
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Wink
I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 7:59am
Find #1 TDC and then check to see if the distributor rotor is at or near the #1 lug of distributor cap. To find #1 TDC slowly crank the engine over with your thumb over the spark plug hole until your feel compression then continue turning over until TDC mark is lined up on flywheel. Both valves should be closed with .015 clearance.
You got a book?
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Wink
I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 8:02am
Opps, I see you seem to already know how to find TDC
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Wink
I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 8:32am
And just to confirm:
The #1 lug is the point at which the wire from the coil comes into the distro.
The TDC mark is AFTER the F mark on the flywheel ( a few inches away after you pass it )
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 8:35am
Lonn, tonight I will do the oil compression test and a dry compression both with the battery and also set the clearance to .015. And yes, I do have the book. it is actually the original to the tractor with the sale sheet and check off in it. I am blessed!
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Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 8:47am
I'm with Automatic Dave. CHECK THE FIRING ORDER. You may have a wire crossed. My experience with these AC engines running hot is either they have a plugged radiator or the timing is way off. They don't have a characteristic of running hot to start off with even on the hottest day of the year working. I'm thinking you have a couple problems here. We'll drop the plugged radiator assumption because I don't think that applies here. First, you need to do a compression test spinning the engine over with the starter motor. Hand crankin' it ain't gonna cut it for accuracy and comparibility for compression. With 20 psi in a cylinder, the engine shouldn't even run. If it runs occasionally, there's gotta' be more compression than 20 psi in there. Flames out the stack- could mean to rich a mix and the unburned fuel is igniting in the muffler stack causing the flames. Black smoke would also indicate an overfueling problem along with the fireworks out the stack. If the manifold glows, that's usually a lean mix issue. MAKE SURE THE TIMING IS CORRECT USING TDC if Distributor fired. Make sure it has fresh fuel in it. Crappy fuel will make it run like crap and do crazy things also.
Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 9:09am
A simple first check for centrifugal advance working is with the distributor cap off, turn the rotor in the direction it turns when running. It should allow advancing 15 or 20 degrees and when released must snap back to the static position. If the weights or springs are broken it will move but not snap back. If the pivot is rusted fast it won't move at all. Sometimes the maintenance for that inner mechanism is neglected, needs a drop of oil into the felt in the hollow shaft under the rotor every year or two.
Then with it running and a timing light the ignition should be close to top dead center at idle and must be more advanced the faster the engine is running.
Lots of flame out the exhaust is a sign of potentially retarded ignition timing or exhaust valves leaking or both. Retarded timing can be hard on exhaust valves.
Gerald J.
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Posted By: dawntreader74
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2016 at 8:43pm
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take the cap off an see if number 1 is pointing at number 1 cyl' front of motor. you can be on timing mark an still be 180 off. thank it's 1243' fire order. it will get hot an kick out the pipe if it's not in time
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 3:15pm
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Number 1 on the cap and rotor should be at around 6-7 o'clock or at 1 o clock?
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 3:31pm
Depends on how the last person assembled the distributor to the engine. To be factory right, staring down at the cap from behind, #1 should be at the 10 or 11 o'clock position. But it can be anywhere depending on where the previous "mechanic" set it.
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-- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... -
Wink
I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 3:48pm
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How can I tell how it is set?
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Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 4:15pm
The jackleg way I do it is to take the valve cover off and turn the engine until #1 valve
closes and then turn the rotor until you're at Number #1 on the cap,won't be perfect but will give you a pretty good starting point.
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2016 at 10:27pm
So I went out and took apart the Distributor. Here is what I found. Is this my problem? What is the next step? THANK YOU for ALL of you HELP!!! I really appreciate it!
Go to this link for the pictures: https://1drv.ms/f/s!Auo4c4_wWK4MiKdyKyq_v6GlGrwSEA" rel="nofollow - https://1drv.ms/f/s!Auo4c4_wWK4MiKdyKyq_v6GlGrwSEA
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Posted By: Sugarmaker
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 5:53am
Ahhhhhhh! I believe that your distributor is junk! I have never seen one that bad! Check with some of the use parts guys and get a good working one. Or call Steve at B&B and get a rebuilt one. Are you sure this was in the tractor that was running at all? That's why its always a good idea to take some pictures.
Ok someone might be able to bring this back to spec but I seriously doubt it! Just my opinion.
Regards,
Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 6:59am
Nasty!!! Time for a replacement. I'm with Chris and surprised it ever ran. Bet it will run much better after it's replaced!
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy
1956 F40 Ferguson
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Posted By: KD8NGV
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 11:17am
I had it running when I bought it at the auction and drove it a while. It must have just rusted shut the year it was sitting (inside) and put the final nail in the coffin. I assume that I just take the top 'mushroom' (picture 2-4) part off and leave the part attached to the governor on? When I get a replacement (maybe at Rochester GOTO) how do I mesh it correctly with the gear on the tractor? (Part in Picture 1)
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Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2016 at 2:49pm
When you are ready to install the new or rebuilt distributor, crank the engine by hand so number 1 cylinder is on the compression stroke. ( with all plugs out, put your thumb over #1 hole and feel for compression as it is turned.) Bring that piston to TDC, you can feel the piston with a wire thru the plug hole, or get the Center(NOT the fire mark) mark on the flywheel in the middle of the hole.
Turn the distributor so the rotor points to the area in the cap you will use as #1 wire and install it. Now turn the distributor so the points just start to open and snug it down. Install wires in firing order clockwise (looking down) around the distrib and put them on the right plug.
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http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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