WD lift arms - pump or seal issue

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   Hey Guys, 
I'm venturing into an area I'm not real familiar with - hydraulics. I just picked up a 3 point conversion (got a heck of a deal!) but before I can plug it in to the snapcoupler - I need to get the rear lift arms to hold. Push the lever up - arms go up. Lever in the middle, hold position, I can push the arms down, not easily, but if I can with my hands, any couple hundred pound implement surly can drop them. Lever at the bottom, and they push in easily, gravity fed I've read so that makes sense. Now before we get in to the lift arms and the hold position, I've read a lot about the adjustments on the pump, I want to clarify one thing. I have a bucket for this that the hydraulics plug in to the rear auxiliary port (not sure if that is the right terminology). When I have the bucket raised, with dirt in it, so quite a bit of weight hanging out there, and the lever is in the middle, hold position, that bucket does not drop. Will stay up all day long. So that makes me question if I have a pump related issue, or the seals in rear lift rams have gone bad. Just looking for areas to start trouble shooting.

Thanks

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cooz65 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 29 Jun 2020 Location: Minnesota Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote cooz65 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: WD lift arms - pump or seal issue Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 9:35am
	Hey Guys, I'm venturing into an area I'm not real familiar with - hydraulics. I just picked up a 3 point conversion (got a heck of a deal!) but before I can plug it in to the snapcoupler - I need to get the rear lift arms to hold. Push the lever up - arms go up. Lever in the middle, hold position, I can push the arms down, not easily, but if I can with my hands, any couple hundred pound implement surly can drop them. Lever at the bottom, and they push in easily, gravity fed I've read so that makes sense. Now before we get in to the lift arms and the hold position, I've read a lot about the adjustments on the pump, I want to clarify one thing. I have a bucket for this that the hydraulics plug in to the rear auxiliary port (not sure if that is the right terminology). When I have the bucket raised, with dirt in it, so quite a bit of weight hanging out there, and the lever is in the middle, hold position, that bucket does not drop. Will stay up all day long. So that makes me question if I have a pump related issue, or the seals in rear lift rams have gone bad. Just looking for areas to start trouble shooting. Thanks

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SteveM C/IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8629	Post Options Post Reply Quote SteveM C/IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 10:30am
	Both are plumbed into same hold valve. If it holds loader it should hold arms. If seals are leaking it will be pouring oil to the outside. They are one way push cylinders. What you're stating doesn't make sense.

cooz65 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 29 Jun 2020 Location: Minnesota Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote cooz65 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 11:02am
	When I got the tractor from my Father-in-law this spring, it had been sitting for 10+ years. The rear arms only had about half of the range of motion. They wouldn't go all the way in. I was able to slowly work everything back and forth to regain that full range of motion. However since I've been having this issue of not holding, I have not noticed any oil leaking out of the rams. Which you're saying if the seals were bad, I should see oil leaking from the rams.

CTuckerNWIL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22825	Post Options Post Reply Quote CTuckerNWIL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 11:47am
	That's right. There are no pistons or seals in those cylinders. There is just a rod with a snap ring on the bottom to keep it from coming out, and a packing nut on the cylinder. There is nothing internal that can let it leak down. If you plan to use a 3 point, you will have to block the loader up and unplug it from the tractor, or install a diverter valve to direct pressure to either the lift arms or the loader. Edited by CTuckerNWIL - 03 Sep 2020 at 11:50am
	http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF

DrAllis Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21905	Post Options Post Reply Quote DrAllis Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 6:13pm
	The "hold" position only blocks one of the two lift arm cylinders and I think it is the right lift cylinder that actually holds. The right lift ram hose should be connected to the right side of the hold valve. The left lift cylinder should be connected to the left side of the hold valve at the REAR port. The remote outlet (loader) connects to the LEFT side of the hold valve in the FRONT port with a steel tube running under the battery box and coming out under the seat. Anything that has been replumbed or jury-rigged in a way that isn't OEM is possibly the issue. Also, you must have the hydraulic pump actually set/adjusted for the "Hold" position, which I think you do. I just think hoses/lines are NOT connected correctly.

SteveM C/IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8629	Post Options Post Reply Quote SteveM C/IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 03 Sep 2020 at 6:20pm
	Forgot about the ram plumbing for delayed cultivator lift. When I hung an RG630 on the back of my 45,I plumbed both cylinders to the hold side with a tee. Otherwise the lift shaft twisted and drooped one side when holding.

cooz65 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Bronze Level Joined: 29 Jun 2020 Location: Minnesota Points: 11	Post Options Post Reply Quote cooz65 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Sep 2020 at 1:57pm
	I checked over the weekend and the plumbing is done how DrAllis had said. If only one side truly does hold, I do like what Steve had said about plumbing them both to one side to keep it from twisting. I talked with my F.I.L and he was talking about setting it up for the hold position, but after looking in the manual, it appears that it already is, and since the loader holds, I'd have no reason to believe it isn't. Right now I don't have the loader plugged in. I took it off for the summer as I only need that in the spring time to scoop the padock, so I don't plan on using both the loader and 3 point at the same time.

SteveM C/IL Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8629	Post Options Post Reply Quote SteveM C/IL Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: 08 Sep 2020 at 8:06pm
	I put a Tee where the outside elbow is and used the elbow in the tee to hook other hose to. I got some JIC fittings to make the hose connections easier.