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Allis CA

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TomC View Drop Down
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Joined: 24 Nov 2017
Location: Hillsboro, MO
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Allis CA
    Posted: 18 hours 48 minutes ago at 7:21pm
I use tin foil to wrap anything I don't want paint on,a lot cleaner and easier than tape and you can shove it into corners and around stuff that tape is almost impossible to get it to stick to.works great
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 hours 30 minutes ago at 5:39pm
Tom,
Yea your probably right! I will keep cleaning the dirty old CA for a while, since it needs that anyway. I know it wount pull any better with acoat of paint. But while pulling or at the pulls it represents me or friends and family pulling too. I do have several in there work clothes too. 
Have never used tin foil as a mask??? Humm?? 
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 20 hours 29 minutes ago at 5:40pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Joined: 24 Nov 2017
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 1:21pm
You have it that far might as well pull the front tires,use tin foil to mask it and get out the paint guns, I painted mine in my barn, it took me a bit but I got a roll of plastic painter drop cloth and sorta made my own paint booth, I also made a barrier around the temp paint booth,and draped plastic over the other equipment and implements, it turned out pretty good, not a $3,000.00 paint job but probably better than factory.also used way low pressure
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 1:04pm
Thanks guys,
This is what these old brake shoes look like, not good at all:

Pulling the right final was easy:

Remove the cover from the right side of the rearend:

Pop out the old seal and install the new seal:

Sealant on the bolt threads

Now I need to get serious about clean up. The time to do that is now. Wolud be nice to get the back half of the tractor done while apart. What does that mean? I dont know maybe a coat of fresh orange paint?? I have not painted anything in the shop yet. And I did not make a dedicated paint room. Lots of things in here that we dont want painted with orange overspray!
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - Yesterday at 1:07pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Joined: 22 Jun 2015
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote plummerscarin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:48am
Awesome job!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:43am
Coming right along!
It's the color tractor my grandpa had!
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Yesterday at 11:22am
Allis folks,
the tire size on the CA = 12-24 Firestone Field and road.

We have the left final drive cleaned of grease and grime and set aside:


Have the CA supported on both sides:

ready to pull the right rear. Brake pin design on the top is awesome! Brake shoes on the right side were junk, Brake drum on the right is in pretty good shape, so I do not plan to change that. The seal in the differential has been replaced.;

Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - Yesterday at 12:57pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 5:17pm
Folks,
 I did get the right rear tire off today. Also have the rear supported with steel sawhorses under the bar which has the pedals attached. I have started to clean the rear of some of the accumulated grease and grime. Not sure whare I will end up on this CA? We all know its a lot of work to clean and update these 70 year old tractors.
Will try to get some pictures. Cold weather and some snow today. So most of the day was spent in the warmer shop.
Hope things are good in Orange Land!
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
Location: Albion PA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2023 at 5:49pm
HudCo,
 Humm? I should know and don't? Rim size is same as regular CA, So I think that is 24 inch? correct? I will try to check tomorrow. But one of the reasons I bought this was for the pretty good old Firestone rears.
I did get the rear seals from Sandy Lake. Removed and installed the smaller. I did get the larger (outer) seal also, But a little late now that I have the brake drum in place.
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 31 Jan 2023 at 5:52pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Joined: 29 Jan 2013
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 9:23pm
what size are your rear tires ?
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Joined: 12 Jul 2013
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 9:07am
ac160, folks,
I did the work with the shaft in the tractor housing. I believe to pull the shaft you need to have the drum and key off anyway. I did try to remove the shaft when the drum was off. But I guess I did not have the correct tooling as I could not move it outward with the exterior cap off. The outer bearing exterior cup must have to be pushed out with the bearing? I gave up and went back to cleaning the shaft the best I could to allow the new drum to fit on the shaft. 
I am sure there are folks on here that can tell you what the techniques are to get the shaft out easily?
Looking forward to your project. Let us know how it goes!
Regards,
Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 30 Jan 2023 at 9:12am
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Joined: 02 Dec 2010
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac160 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jan 2023 at 6:53am
When you worked on the brake drum did you pull the whole shaft out or do it  while the shaft was in the tractor?  I am about to do the same on  a CA  when I have time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2023 at 1:35pm
Paul, Folks,
This tractor has had the hand clutch removed and the brake drum looks pretty good on the right side. But I think I will try to pull that side apart and put in tha new seal for the rear diferential. 
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 7:30pm
  The key in the drum only needs to do enough for the brakes, no power is put to the wheels with that key. 
  Although those hand clutches (in good working condition) in the RH housing will handle more power than the factory engine clutch, for a dedicated puller I've always put a LH pinion shaft in the RH housing. It also looses a few pounds by replacing the hand clutch with a LH shaft and brake drum. 


Edited by PaulB - 28 Jan 2023 at 7:32pm
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 5:00pm
Guys,
 Yes the entire casting cavity was full of mouse nests, and debis! What a mess! I think I would build some type of puller and or get a grinder small enough to get in the brake hole to cut the old drum apart. Cutting down above the keyway is the way to split the cast drum. After I salvaged the key and installed the new drum over the key, I tightened the bolt/ lock nut down. But the new keyway in the drum must be deep because the key kicked up more than I expected when viewed from the end. Humm?? Still looks like the key will work. 
Off topic: Today was all maple related with a annual membership meeting and dinner. Then Cheryl and I strung another 200 taps ( about 1/3 of our total ) this afternoon. 
Hope things are good in Orange land!
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 28 Jan 2023 at 5:15pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 9:39am
As much fun as you had with that be glad it was the left one. I could really use a right, hard to come by!

My guess on Ruby's interest, drum might smell like mice?
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Joined: 19 Jan 2010
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wjohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 8:54am
Ha, Ruby's having fun! I had to do the brake bands in one of my Bs, but I've not had to pull a drum off yet... No trouble for you.
1939 B, 1940 B, 1941 WC, 1951 WD, 1952 CA, 1956 WD-45
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Phil48ACWC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023 at 7:36am
Great Dog!!! He knows a busted brake drum when he sees it.  

Edited by Phil48ACWC - 28 Jan 2023 at 7:42am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2023 at 7:01pm
Sparky, Folks,
 New seals ordered from Sandy Lake.
Friend John and I worked on the brake drum removal. It is not a easy task. Broke off the exterior portion. Used a dremel and a small wheel to slit the casting about 3/16 deep above the keyway. Then a cold chisel through the drilled hole and it continued and split the casting. A lot of prying and choice words. The key was actually hard to get out too. I wanted to clean up the axle, and finally got it but not easy to get in through the hole in the exterior. Installed the new brake drum, and set screw/ lock nut.

Ruby was checking out the old brake drum:




Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2023 at 8:18pm
If you’re pulling both sides yes. New seals every time while you’re in there.
It's the color tractor my grandpa had!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2023 at 7:55pm
Sparky,
 Yes I was thinking the same thing. And that means I need to pull the other side also!:(
But its the right thing to do. This poor old tractor probably needs everything! Just not sure I want to go that deep?
 Thanks for the suggestion on the seal/s. Now would be the time for sure!
Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sparky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2023 at 7:44pm
Suggestion. Before you go back with the final drive I would replace the axle seal in the transmission housing. Good luck on your repair.
It's the color tractor my grandpa had!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2023 at 6:57pm
Guys,
 I am ready for the majic words on getting the old brake drum off the shaft. I do have the lock nut and lock screw out of the old drum. All the exterior of the old drum is broken off down to the hub. Tried some heat and pry bar. Some heat from the blue wrench. Some Kroyl. Some sawsall work some cold chisel blows. A little action with pry and air chisel. Well it hasnt moved yet! But we will get it. Thought about some type of puller working against the end of the shaft??

By the way these top pins are way eaiser than WD style lower brake pins! And Paul was right the brake bands were junk! 
Some shots as I removed the left rear housing:




 I would like to get in and cut the old drum down to the keyway. But I just dont have a tool to do it. So I came here to ask for some advice from those that have removed CA brake drums.
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 26 Jan 2023 at 7:34pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jan 2023 at 9:21am
Ah, looks like a happy pup. Steering wheel looks good too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 6:48pm
Mike,
 Ruby is untrained and spoiled rotten! She is in control most of the time! Perfect!



The steering wheel update looks good! Pumping up the front tires helped bring the steering to a acceptable condition:


I did move the CA around to get the left rear under the jib. Brake work next up.

Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 24 Jan 2023 at 6:56pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2023 at 9:21am
Chris, good to see you're making progress on the latest Orange project!

How's the pup doing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 3:18pm
AC folks,
I jacked up the tractor, loosened the lower casting fastners enough to get .020 inch shims in four places. tightended the bolts and checked for clearance in the sector gear. There was a little. Now this might have gone away if I had lowered the tractor. 
Shortened the two castelated nuts for the drag link to allow cotter pimns to be inserted.
Then proceeded to make some minor improvements to the steering wheel. Old, cracked, and crusty with black stuff coming off on your hands. You know what I mean. Sanded the hand grip area, filled in the cracks with 2 part  5 minute epoxy, sprayed a coating of flat black just to get started making it look better.




Sanding required to smooth the epoxy a little, then a couple coats of black finish. Should be just a tad better for the old CA, and whoever may be driving. Would love to see my great granddaughter pulling this tractor in another 12 years!
Regards,
 Chris


Edited by Sugarmaker - 23 Jan 2023 at 3:21pm
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 10:47am
Paul,
 Thanks for the information on the manifolds. Sometimes we just do things because we just dont know!:) Still learning on these CA's. Yes I see manifolds from Stieners for sale too. Good suggestions.
Regards,
Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 10:10am
Now that you ask: The early manifold that you have works on any BE/CE head. Yes on the kerosene engines it should have an extra shield for more heat, it would also help if you wish to run E85. Those early manifold should have the same carburetor  bolt spacing, no big deal to widen them if needed. However the ports and passage up from the carburetor may be somewhat smaller than the later manifolds. Also easily taken care of.
  I suppose that you got the early manifold because it was cheaper than a NEW one. I'd still be tempted to get a NEW one and sell the early manifold to a B/C restorer looking to appease the correct police. Those early manifolds in perfect condition are worth more than the NEW ones cost. 
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sugarmaker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jan 2023 at 9:45am
John, Allis Folks,
 The book shows a shield going over that arfea of the manifold for the non gas version. Maybe building up more heat?? I will check the carb hole spacing next. Paul should be along soon to answer this manifold issue?:)
Might take the front end apart and add a shim between the castings? Might be too tight on the steering gears? Just dont want too much slop either. Book says shim as needed! Easier said than done!
 Regards,
 Chris
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump.
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