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53' model CA won't start? |
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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I bought tractor 4 months ago that started almost every time within a couple seconds of turning key and now I cannot get it to start I tried pulling the plug out and holding it too ground to see how the spark looked and I've got nothing? No spark at all? I drain the gas out of the carburetor and I never use ethanol based gasoline in any of my small motors we still have a place that sells recreational 90 gasoline so I don't understand why or how anything has changed from when I bought it?
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Gerald J. ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |
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Could be points corroded so aren't making contact. Could be cam pad on points wore off so its not opening the points. Could be a broken wire in the ignition primary circuit, or the ignition switch. Could be a failed coil or condenser.
The shop manual I have on line should help: http://geraldj.networkiowa.com/Trees/Allis-Chalmers-G-B-C-CA-Service.pdf Gerald J. |
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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File the points would be my first guess. Could be a dozen other reasons. MACK
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Ok, it's been converted to 12v by previous owner but started and ran ok when I bought it 4 months ago and has just sat in our barn out of the weather
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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With the distributor cap off and the points on the highest part of the lobe on the shaft check the points gap. You need .020. At the .020 gap and the rotor pointing to number one plug wire terminal, make sure the TDC line on the flywheel is in the center of the inspection hole. Loosen the distributor clamp and rotate the distributor back and fourth with the ignition switch on. Watch for spark between the points. When the points are closed just ready to open, tighten the clamp. If you did not see spark check to see if you have power at the coil with the points open. You need power from the switch to the coil. If you did see spark at the points you have a bad coil if you still do not have spark at the plug. If you then have spark at the plug it should start and run if you have fuel since it was already running and not been tinkered with.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Ok
Thanks guys Just need to take the time to look into this now with info greatly appreciated... With no spark on plug electrode while cranking motor over it is puzzling me how it started and ran so good a couple months ago? Nothing's been messed with by anyone on this tractor( including myself) I originally just had to get air in tires was main problem ,but now this Motor was rebuilt 2 years ago so a strong runner with no smoke from motor. |
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22824 |
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First, check that you have battery voltage at the coil with the key in the run position.
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Ok thanks
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8448 |
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Welcome and this is not unusual for a tractor that has been setting to have electrical issues. As mentioned file the points. Or if bad replace them. Then set the point gap. close the gap and run a dollar bill through the points. Also good to go to Harbor freight and get a inline spark tester. plugs onto the spark plug and the wire into the other end. Nice way to safely check for spark at the plug/s and tractor will run with it in place as you try to start it. Good luck. Sounds like you have gas, so that shoukd be OK. Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 14 Mar 2018 at 1:07pm |
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Ted J ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18923 |
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I will assume that you have mice in Ohio, the same as we do here in WI.. Check for wires cut by these vermin.
Sounds like it should be just a simple wire problem or possibly the switch went kaput. Got a multi-meter? 1 - Check that you have power from the battery to the switch. 2 - From that switch to where ever it goes. I'm thinking it goes to a solenoid....seeing as you said "within a couple seconds of turning key". I have had a bad switch before and it acted just like yours. The key switch was faulty, not making connections AFTER it turned the starter over. In other words, it wasn't giving power for it to RUN. After checking this, I'd then move on to the points and other parts. The simple things first. |
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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I have started to look into why my 53 CA will not start again I've tried to upload pictures but it says the file is too large I'm currently charging my battery to do voltage checks this tractor has been converted to 12 volt DC and has some type of white what appears to be ceramic box device next to what appears to me to be a solenoid that is next to the distributor cap that the spark plugs come out of if any of that makes any sense? If I could get pictures to upload I would be able to show some if anyone can help with that?
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Larry in NC ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 09 Feb 2016 Location: NC Points: 1050 |
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That box is a resistor that reduces the 12 volts from the battery to 6 volts going to the coil. It is best to throw that away and install a 12 volt coil.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Okay thanks for the input I may have fried that white device anyhow it was extremely hot to the touch when I had the battery charger on it with the key turned a little bit so I switched the key and pulled it out now it's cooled down
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Larry in NC ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 09 Feb 2016 Location: NC Points: 1050 |
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If you got the resistor hot with the key turned on, check your points. If they were in the closed position, they are probably burnt.
Edited by Larry in NC - 24 Mar 2018 at 3:57pm |
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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With the key in the Run position 6 volts is carried through the coil so I took the distributor cap off and everything in there looks really clean not corroded or anything.
Now what do I check next? |
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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Read what I posted above! You might want to print it and take it out to the tractor. Where are you at in Ohio? |
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Ok thanks Dick L
I've not worked on any of these older tractors( didn't expect to have to on this one since it started and ran so good when I bought it) I may need some additional information as to the terminology your using in above post reply from you Northeast Ohio |
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Well I'm not sure what I did , but I think main lead coming out of the coil was not making contact because after taking it all apart and putting it back together I now at least have spark that is blue in color and the little bit I do know about Motors is blue is good!
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Every one of the spark plugs I've taken out of this thing (4) are gapped differently can someone tell me what the spark plug gap is supposed to be?
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chaskaduo ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 26 Nov 2016 Location: Twin Cities Points: 5200 |
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1938 B, 79 Dynamark 11/36 6spd, 95 Weed-Eater 16hp, 2010 Bolens 14hp
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Ok, now guys
What is correct spark plug wire order off top of distributor ( I should have marked them before I took it apart) |
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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pretend the cap has been turned up and number one is next to the engine forward. the firing order is 1-2-4-3
![]() Edited by Dick L - 28 Mar 2018 at 4:45pm |
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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I can't upload pictures because it say file is more than 2048kb
I'm 90 percent sure my plug wires are in correct order, but I am unsure of where the points everyone is referring to are? There are 2 spring clamps that holds black part of distributor cap on( I removed that but all I see in there is a center spring steel contact point... |
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86695 |
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after you pull down the two spring clip and pull the cap... grab the center spring contact point (ROTOR) and pull it up.. it sets on a shaft with a pin drive....... then remove the black plate ......... then under it is the point and condenser.
open your drawing in PAINT and it will show it being something like 3400 x 2400 pixels... RESIZE that to 800 x 600 and save it....... it will then be make 150Kb and you can upload.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86695 |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 86695 |
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another closeup of installing point and align
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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![]() Here's my plug wire order picture |
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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Wow, thanks Steve
Good info in videos I'll check what I can tomorrow and update post |
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Sugarmaker ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8448 |
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Sorry I just tuned in but in that picture it looks like the wire going to the distributor is bare? That could be a issue if it is touching anything metal.
Regards, Chris
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D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
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Hunt4Allis ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1172 |
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It is barely, but not touching anything
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