D15 will not crank over

Hi all,
Just joined and first post on this forum.
I have a very clean Series II D15 that I bought from the original family maybe 10 years ago when they were selling their farm. The Grandpa bought it new and was told it was delivered right from the factory on a railcar and since factory was only 20 miles away guess I can believe it.
I actually live 1 block from the factory in West Allis myself and can see what's left of it from my backyard.
I took tractor up to our cottage in northern Wisconsin and have had it parked in a storage container and occasionally started it and drove it around but it was kind of a hassle getting it in and out so it's just been stored basically. Well it's been sitting for a while now but I have a large pole barn now to keep it in and want to actually use it so I tried to start it last fall and move it. First off the fuel bowl was leaking like crazy and it wouldn't fire so I just left it sit until this last week when I had some time to play with it. I had to mess with points last time I started it so I bought a new fuel bowl, plugs, wires, point and cap and rotor to install.
Was just up last week so I installed fuel bowl and new gas line first and then tried to fire it up.
All it did was clunk when I hit starter button. Double checked battery in an old car and it cranked it over no problem. Cleaned terminals, same thing. Took covers off and tried tapping on starter to see if it was maybe stuck. Tried to see if engine would turn over grabbing fan and turning and didn't seem to budge. Tried putting it in high gear and rocking tires with no luck. Almost seemed like the engine is stuck but it cranked over no problem last fall and it is in a weather proof container and I did have stack covered too.
Anyway eventually just wanted to get it out of container and into garage so I could actually work on it so I jacked up bucket and chained it up and pulled it out with truck and rolled into garage. Moved easily in neutral too.
Once in garage figured out how to remove starter and just pulled it out a couple inches but not totally out of housing. Tried starter button with it still connected and it seemed to spin ok. With starter pulled back a bit I tried to spin engine by fan again and now it turned easily like an eighth of a turn and then seemed to lock up again. I thought maybe starter was not releasing originally and binding it up but now it seems locked again.
That was about all the time I had so just left it like that until I get up next time.
Anyone have any ideas what's going on here. Is there something that could be locking this up? I'd really appreciate any advise as I've never really worked on one of these.

Thanks,
Kevin

I would remove the spark plugs and then try to turn it over by hand.

First thing I would check is the Anchor Stud and Nut that secures the Starter in place.
This stud also serves as the negative grounding spot for the battery.

Gary

What I would do is..
1) remover starter
2) emove all plugs
3) engage PTO
4) put pipe wrench on PTO shaft and try to turn over engine

do NOT force it but it should go round and round..

if not, then mix up some acetone and diesel fuel 50:50, pour into all cylinders, go to bed...
next day, try #4 again.
if it moves say 1/4 turn CW, turn it back CCW 1/2 turn OR until 'snug' again. add more ace/die mix, walk away another day.
repeat this test/turn/add/walk away
It took me 2 weeks of this routine but 'Troy' freed up after sitting 25+ years !
Patience, oil and more patience. the  'Holy Trinity' of getting old tractors to run again.

Once you can spin the engine smoothly using the PTO method, DISENGANGE THE PTO ! THEN put the starter back in, it should spin the engine. After that, add fresh gas, pull choke and she should start fine.....
..if not report back, we're here to help. Better to ask BEFORE you bust 'something'.
Jay

X2 on Jay's post. Another mixture to use is atf/acetone 50/50. After you get it freed up change the oil and filter. You may also need a new set of points and condenser, make sure you get a good set and not some of the imported junk that is out there. Steve in NJ has the quality sets and is one of the advertisers that supports this Forum. He is also the guru on anything electrical for these old tractors. www.bb-customcircuits.com/

Edited by Hubert (Ga)engine7 - 30 Aug 2017 at 9:08am

Probably has sweated stuck. It happens when the temp changes under tarps, in containers and some buildings. HTH Tracy

PTO lever is on 'bell housing', lower left usually oil drips from there....sigh...
It's a flat metal bar, bent at top for the 'handle' portion of the lever.
Close to clutch pedal stuff....

I wouldn't let starter turn it over until YOU can do it by hand ! You can feel a 'stuck something or other' while the starter can't and will bend or break that 'somthing' before you can say 'aw shoot'....

Jay

Most likely sweat stuck, IMHO, but mice love to nest in these bell housings, for some unknown reason. you might wanna check for foreign objects, in the bottom of the bh, as well as the stuff other posters have said.  Usually, a big wrench on the pto, or rocking the rear wheels in 4th gear will unstick stuck rings. I have seen the best wrench to use, its a piece of female drive shaft, welded to a 4'long winch bar, even has the knurling, on the bar, to keep yer hands from slidin off...

Kevin, Welcome to the best antique tractor forum. Series II, D15; that is a good machine. Herb(GA) 

Covered exhaust doesn't mean water won't leak in. I've had water leak in past the end seams on mufflers on my remote generators. I believe it can leak past where the muffler joins the manifold too. It almost sounds as if there's water in a cylinder and it waterlocks when the piston moves up on the compression stroke.

Thanks all for the advise.
I'll probably be heading up later next week and will check it out closer then and also soak the cylinders down and try the wrench on the PTO trick.
I will also pull the starter all the way out and check out the gear.
Is there any kind of inspection cover to get a look at clutch and flywheel to see if anything is in there?
I did think of the hydro lock thing and that's why I pulled plugs out originally as last fall I was cranking it over but gas was leaking all over. Thought it might of flooded in engine as it wouldn't fire and I just let it sit after that. Don't think any of that happened as oil looked and smelled fine and plugs were dry as can be.

Anyway here are a couple pictures. First one is probably 10 years ago when we hauled it up. Picture is in the alley behind my house in West Allis. In the background is Motor casting Co. and directly behind that is the old Allis Chalmers tractor plant which you can't see in picture.

Second picture was last week when I pulled tractor out and pulled in garage.

DiyDave wrote: Most likely sweat stuck, IMHO, but mice love to nest in these bell housings, for some unknown reason. you might wanna check for foreign objects, in the bottom of the bh, as well as the stuff other posters have said.  Usually, a big wrench on the pto, or rocking the rear wheels in 4th gear will unstick stuck rings. I have seen the best wrench to use, its a piece of female drive shaft, welded to a 4'long winch bar, even has the knurling, on the bar, to keep yer hands from slidin off...

DiyDave was correct!     Pulled starter out and it was packed in there with mouse nest so I went underneath and pulled round access cover off bottom of bellhousing and it was packed SOLID with mouse nest. I had to jam a screwdriver in just to start breaking nest loose. After a couple hours of pulling stuff out, blowing through top and from underneath with air nozzle seemed to get most of it out. It did take a big pipe wrench on PTO to break it loose. After just pulling out what I could at first and putting wrench on it I could start to turn it a little and then it would lock but after a lot of back and forth with wrench and cleaning got it to turn pretty easy. Looks very clean now.

Still couldn't get it running though. ran out of time to work on it. Got it to pop a few times anyway so just took carb off to bring home and rebuild for next time. should hopefully be good to go then.










Thanks to all for the advise! Probably more questions to follow.

Kevin

I just started working on my dads d15 ac not a 100 percent on year I’m thinking early 60’s it has been converted to a 12 volt battery system by previous owner the positive is still acted as the ground the ground wire is connected to the starter.

I just bought a brand new battery for it ( the tractor has been sitting for a few years ) and when I turned on the key and clicked the starter all it did was click more of a clunk it didn’t try to spin just sounded like a dead battery but it’s brand new , I can turn the fan blade freely I’m not thinking it’s locked up by any means, I also took the plugs out and they didn’t look terrible. I’m just hoping for a step in the right direction/ someone that has had the same issue before we put a bunch of money into it and it be somthing semi simple thanks in advance.

Edited by Bweston - 17 Mar 2022 at 7:27pm

Your battery / starter / solenoid wires should look something like this... I assume you have a generator and not an alternator... that is not important right now..

Edited by steve(ill) - 17 Mar 2022 at 7:48pm

OK... the push button takes the place of the ignition switch "start" position... But you still need a solenoid, maybe mounted to the starter, that has the BIG BATTERY wire connected to it ?