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The ones Allis Chalmers did not build

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Claus View Drop Down
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    Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 6:57am
What do you wish AC would have built?  I wish they would have built a larger tractor than the WD45, the 45 was a great tractor but I wish they would have built something larger like the Molines of that time.  I like to see the antique tractor pulls but when you see a Case 900, Cockshutt 50 or a 80 Deere, there is nothing orange to compete with them.  Also wish the 6095 (6080 with 301 turbo) would have made it into production, I bet that would have been a real nice tractor.
 
How about a large round baler for the hay guys.  What else?
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injpumpEd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 7:05am
a 6095 should be a bolt together deal. except sheet metal of course. I am suprised we havent seen one pop up on here! there are alot of innovative people on this forum. remember the WD95 was it? Alot of the tractors that never made it past the planning stage could be "built" by some of these craftsmen! make sure you post lots of pics for us to enjoy. Ed.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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gary ny View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gary ny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 8:29am
I would have like to see the little 4 wheel drive that used the ce motor built . I saw a Massey Harris  4 wheel drive at the goto in canada last and though how great it would be to have one of those little allis 4 wheel drives up here
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omahagreg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 9:43am
Norm Swinford talks of a large round baler they were working on, but abandoned when the ground drive did not work.  I wonder why a PTO drive was not tried-maybe it was considered too innovative?
Greg Kroeker
1950 WD with wide front and Freeman trip loader
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Claus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Claus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 9:48am
Actually they were looking at putting their name on someone else's junk machine, bad idea X2!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisFreak MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 10:25am
I wish they wouldn't have bailed out of the hay equipment business in the mid 70's. I have an old 904 mower conditioner from the early 70's?? that I still use, but parts are hard to come by.

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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gary ny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 12:08pm
I remember new holland had an early big round baler that didn t tie it it just raped it into a very loose bale.the farmer I was working for was all excited about it when he borrowed it and baled a 20 acre field with it.we took the loader down to pick them up and they just fell apart.He was fit to be tied then it started raining and it rained for 4 days straight ,I had laught my butt off because I thought it was not a good idea to bale it all like that but he told me to mind my own business this is the the new way lol.when the hay piles finally dried out they made real nice burn piles all over the field .But i told him the grass where we burned is coming in nice and thick so at least you will get some decent second cutting out of it lol.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rfdeere Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 12:25pm
I wish they would have built Farm Tractors after 1985.
Randy Freshour,Member Indiana AC Partners,
http://www.rumelyallis.com
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Allis was really innovative in implements.  They had the first production round baler, a front unloading manure spreader, first no-till corn planter, arguably the best pull type combine, an excellent design in the silent weed killer, I think the first min-till disc-chise, an excellent mon-frame plow with hydraulic reset, etc.  I think it would've been nice if AC just improved those.  There are tons of front unloading manure spreaders now, big round balers are everywhere, the corn planter improved and is still one of the best, the silent weed killer could've been beefed up and had more trash clearance put in it, etc.  I wish they would've improved/made those things.

From a tractor perspective when AC ended they didn't make a tractor smaller than 70 hp in house.  And, the transmission and FWA was not made by them in the 60-60/70/80 models.  In the larger 8000's they were going to outsource the engines.  At the time was there a better tractor in the 100+ hp class than the 8000's?  I don't think so.  Look at todays tractors.  They have some new features like CVT and electronic controls but you take that out and the 8000's still compare favorably.  They could've improved the FWA turning radius and made a smaller frame for the 100-120 hp tractors and gotten bigger on the other end.  
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of the other colors of the era none had a fwa setup like the 8000 series did but nad most didnt have powershift but the pwershift is doggie in these compared to a power director in my opininon it is hard to say where they would have went if they did things different
dairyfarmer
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morton(pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 3:00pm
I wish they would have built the B with the WC engine in it, (the opposite of the RC). I sure would like to see how that matched up in some of the pulls. I wonder if they were able to get the gearing just right on that? I also would have liked to see the 4WD that used the CE engine, and something that was on the size scale between the B/C and the WD-45, and something larger then the WD-45 in the same time period. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Ahart Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 7:42pm

While we're dreaming, how about a:

* D10/12 Series III Diesel using the D175 engine

* WD55 with the G230 or 262 and experimental five (or was it six) speed transmission that never made it into production (mentioned in Norm's book)

* D15 Series III with the D17 IV hydraulic system

A-C Weight ID reference and other goodies at brianahart.net
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Calvin Schmidt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 8:27pm
Brian;  You beat me to it.  D-15 Series III deisel with a D175 turbo.
Gary. I have all the parts to build a small A-C articulated FWD. (4W93) (1 of 0)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LloydCentWi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 8:32pm
How about a 201 or 226 engine converted to diesel, with a turbo, for the WD,WD45s, D17s etc....< id="gwProxy" ="">< ="jsCall;" id="jsProxy" ="">
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a 200 with 426 turbo for all the pullers
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as good as 236/248 perkins engines are, I would like to put a 200cid 433I AC engine into a 170/175. then it would be a thoroughbred!
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gary ny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 9:52pm
Calvin When are you going to get started building it? I will volenteer to paint it for you just to drive it around for a few days lol,Lets get it done for the show in canadaua in 2013.
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D10/D12 would have been great with a power director....and a diesel option! Sometimes I think the bean counters brought AC down.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MI8050 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 2010 at 10:56pm
Hows about actually putting the spring reset prototype plow they hade at least one of into production.  Or even a spring reset plow for that matter, I thought that prototype looked like a real modern setup from the photos.
 
An F4 or F5 Gleaner!
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InjpumpEd quote, "would like to put a 200cid 433I AC engine into a 170/175."
 Yes! that would be nice.
  D19 Diesel came with a turboed 262, to drop the 433I into it. Would have gone from 67 pto to app. 83HP.
 But to keep pace with what they had back in those years, the 4DI344 engine would be another choice.  would have had to beef the trans and rr ends up.
 On another thought, they were already running 3400 engine (D21) and I would bet the 2500 or 2800 engines were available to had dropped them in. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TerryMN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 4:04pm
8095 should have been built
6095 should have been built
7000 series should have had the prototype cab put on they were testing
170/180/190 with Front wheel assist
220 four wheel drive tractor that white built for Allis.
The model D
The model F
The model H-1
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote archangel_cpj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 5:48pm
I would have been curious to see what the next series would look like probably call it a 900 or some dang thing like that but I cant believe that the 426 engine would have made it past the 8000 series the competition was too great there had to be something there to compete with the larger JD motors etc out there...  I wonder if the 426 would have been the last in house engine AC ever build would they have contracted them out...  I really think had AC been able to make it 3 more years and get into the late 80s and 90s they would have had some sweet stufff...

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injpumpEd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 8:07pm
Yes Terry! how could I forget. The A4T1600/AC 4WD. I would also like to build one of those! Put an intercooled 426 in an A4T, put 220 hood/grill/ sheet metal. maybe name it Two-Sixty? oh well, just dreamin anyway! You have to admit it'd be cool as heck! Even leaving the MM585, but turbo'd, would even work. The 440's just didn't have the pizazz they should have. The prototype in Norms book with a 3160 CAT would have been a little better than the ole 555 though.
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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JohnCO View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 8:22pm
A "G" with the 125 engine and live hyralics.  Considering they sold over 29,000 of the G's I bet there would have been a lot more demand if there was a more powerful version
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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JayD-17(NY) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JayD-17(NY) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Jan 2010 at 9:05pm
I always thought those experimental Models D and F were intriguing. The F looked like a father too the d-17, but if it had been produced, most certainly the legendary WD45 never would have. Makes you wonder "What If". Would have been neat if they could have come out with the 45 a few years earlier, then the F , then the d17; but it seems like the country was just crawling out of the depression and then the war came and put a damper on alot of new ideas and innovations.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick of HopeIN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 7:45am
I wish Allis had developed or teamed up to launch a nice small tractor line and equipment  like the Yanmar or Kubota  in the 70s  (and stuck with it for the long haul).   Seems like that was the beginning of the slide for many US companies. 
I owned a Kubota 6100 for a while that was really too small but built like a tank.   Nice diesel that started easily, available front wheel assist, heavy cast iron construction, good dealer support, three point, three speed PTO, diff lock.   I don't think Deere dealers can complain about the  Yanmar deal.
Hindsight is 20/20.  Probably was hard to envision that such a market would evolve for small farms, hobby farms, light construction and landscaping use.   Eventually I think that is why AGCO will just reduce to MF in the US and some short lines.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Scott(SC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 7:55am
I think a WF with live power, diesel and hydraulics would be nice to have. To combine the looks and newer options would be great.
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Brian G. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian G.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2010 at 8:16am
I would like to have seen the experimental WD with the 5 speed trans. become a reality and then carried over to the WD-45s and D-17s. Pg. 78 in Norm Swinford's book. (the Bible)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutchboy Johan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2010 at 7:14am
My wish list would be this.
 
WD45 with 34" rear wheels and a 5 gear tranny,
The conceptional CA30 tractor.
From D17 to above series, all with bigger tires, D17 with 34" and a D19 with 38" as standard.
A D21 with a V8, same as IH did with the 14 and 1566 to bring them up to a 1468 and 1568.
The 190, 200, 210 and 220 tractors with a powershift transmission like the JD 4020.
And off course the 8095 would be a great tractor, but only when it has a AC engine and not the Komatsu.
 
---> Better by Design <---

Johan Straver, Almkerk/ Netherlands

Allis-Chalmers 190XT Ser.III #26829XTD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kip-Utah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2010 at 11:33am
A 5 or 6 speed tranny in the WC-WD45 tractors with a decent road gear like the Farmalls had from 1939 on. It would have been nice back in the day & would make these nicer caravan tractors today! Kip
HANSEN'S OLD ORANGE IRON. Showing, Pulling, & Going!!
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