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small block chevy into a WD45 loader tractor

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sploke View Drop Down
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    Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 9:33am
Hey everyone...after all my woes with trying to fix and rebuild the stock motor in my WD45...I've given up on it.  The block and crankshaft have too many issues at this point to make any sense trying to move forward with this engine.

Soooo I happen to have a 1987 gen I chevy small block sitting in the garage looking for a home.  That'll do!

I've pulled the AC engine out, the clutch housing is still on the tractor.  I'm muddling through what makes the most sense to mate this engine to the rest of the drivetrain.  My initial thought was to get an adapter made to mate the Chevy block to the AC bellhousing, and adapt the stock AC flywheel to the Chevy crank, and use stock gear from the flywheel/clutch on back.  That way I retain the original clutch, starter, and everything from there back to the wheels.  The only trick is building the engine adapter such that the crank stays centered and in line with the clutch shaft.

The other option would be to pull the bellhousing off, pull the torque tube off, and use a separate transmission (which I have access to) and a short driveshaft to mate the chevy engine/tranny directly to the transmission input shaft.  I would lose the mid PTO, rear PTO and hand clutch, but I don't use them anyway.  I'm just not sure if there's a shaft seal on the input shaft where it exits the rear differential housing...it doesn't look like it from the parts book.

Any thoughts on the most sensible way to approach this?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 9:54am
I know someone out there makes an adapter plate for SBC to the AC bellhousing. I haven't found that person yet. An option, for that would be what you mentioned about using a tranny to take the place of the stock WD drivetrain and just couple it to the rearend. Maybe like a Powerglide or a TH350 which I think would slide inbetween the frame rails. I have a wartime WC without an engine and I have a Chevy/Mercruiser 140 to drop inbetween the framerails of that WC. I was also looking for a bellhousing adapter a while back for that combo. The bolt circle on the Chevy 4 cylinder is the same as a SBC.  Going from a 20HP 4 cylinder to a 140HP 4 cylinder should make the ole girl rock n' roll. The SBC would even be a bigger upgrade. I'm goin' with the 4 banger not only cause I have it like you have the small block, but because I like to do things a little  differently....  LOL!   Good Luck with your project!!  Thumbs Up
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ac fleet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 9:56am
I am thinking that if you can get an adapter made and use the original housing would be easier.  Not sure about how the ac flywheel would get along with the chevy for balance but might work. --- On second thought----the 440's have a "extra" flywheel bolted to the stock one in them,---why I don't know, so if that works the tractor flywheel should do fine in your engine!
Hardest part will be getting things lined up/marked/machined out . You might have to modify the frame rails a bit, but no biggie.
Do you have a governor to put on the engine?  I would use a gov. for sure.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 12:28pm
Ridiculous. If you've got the time and money for a foolish project like that, FIX your engine. As far as that goes, you can buy another WD or WD45 for $1500 or maybe half that and between yours and the new one create something that is usable and resaleable.,.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sploke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 2:19pm
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

I know someone out there makes an adapter plate for SBC to the AC bellhousing. I haven't found that person yet. An option, for that would be what you mentioned about using a tranny to take the place of the stock WD drivetrain and just couple it to the rearend. Maybe like a Powerglide or a TH350 which I think would slide inbetween the frame rails. I have a wartime WC without an engine and I have a Chevy/Mercruiser 140 to drop inbetween the framerails of that WC. I was also looking for a bellhousing adapter a while back for that combo. The bolt circle on the Chevy 4 cylinder is the same as a SBC.  Going from a 20HP 4 cylinder to a 140HP 4 cylinder should make the ole girl rock n' roll. The SBC would even be a bigger upgrade. I'm goin' with the 4 banger not only cause I have it like you have the small block, but because I like to do things a little  differently....  LOL!   Good Luck with your project!!  Thumbs Up
Steve@B&B

Yeah, I got a recommendation through the AC facebook group for that person...he only has one left, is not interested in selling it and not interested in making more, so I'm on my own in that regard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 6:16pm
Bummer!  We need somebody like Fred Wilke to design a program, stick it in his CNC machine and cut em' out like you was bakin' cookies...
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sploke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 6:40pm
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

Bummer!  We need somebody like Fred Wilke to design a program, stick it in his CNC machine and cut em' out like you was bakin' cookies...


That would be great...my plan right now is to buy a Chevy engine to BOP trans adapter plate, it will already have a bolt pattern for the engine, so I'll measure out the pattern for the AC clutch housing. Biggest worry is getting the input shaft lined up. IF I end up going the stock flywheel route.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 7:23pm

Link to a Video - V8 WD being sold at Auction in 2017


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0ancECxXEU

………………………………………………………………………………………………..

2013 Orange Spectacular WD45 V8 Pulling

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnYk3rabS4Y



Edited by Gary - 24 Feb 2020 at 7:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote truckerfarmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 10:09pm
If you're just wanting a toy to toodle around on, I say go for it. But, if I read the title of this post right, you plan on using this tractor for a loader. If so, I would definitely rethink things. Putting a 150-200 HP engine in front of a transmission designed for 45 HP, something's gonna give. It might not break tomorrow, or even next week. But eventually something will break. Then all you have is a cobbled up piece of junk.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Feb 2020 at 11:00pm
I'm with Doc....maybe I'm just getting old but for all the work and expense,I'd fix up an AC engine. Cool factors don't work on me anymore.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TimCNY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 7:01am
Amazes me how the most sensible post to this thread seemed to have been ignored.
Same here, Steve, I'm with DrAllis as well. Except, now where to find a WD45 for $1,500 without having to spend $1,000 getting it shipped here...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhankins Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 8:42am
Someone had a wd45 engine for sale on here some time back,but I can't remember who.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 8:58am
hmm to make the adapter ...
1) takes 2 small squares of 1/2"  MDF or particle board.
2) attach one to bellhousing, marking out every hole and where the input shaft is
3) attach other to engine, marking out every hole and the end of crankshft.
4) mate them together so that crankshaft and input shaft are alligned.
5) now cutout the unnecessary 'inside stuff' to leave  the 1" thick 'adapter' plate

..heck, this looks good in my mind and I've done similar adapters to things...

Now the EASY way is to trade the SBC for a good running WD engine...
I do wonder about the low RPM torque from the SBC..
I KNOW 'upgrading' from the inline 6 to the 304 V8 in my '73 CJ-5 , I LOST  big time the 'bottom end' torque...needed for snowplowing and discing....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lon(MN) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 9:03am
If you plan to use it, fix the engine. Shipping is expensive but if you need a block and crank that would not stop me from getting that shipped. I use my WD45 loader tractor a lot and have seen and talked with folks who did the engine conversion, the result is the tractor has been reduced to a parade tractor. My two cents.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boss Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 11:59am
SBC would make it a toy. Guy put a 318 in a Farmall 400. Would do 45 mph down the road but struggled to pull a flat rack out of a hay field. Automotive V8's have power at to high of RPM's to be practical in a tractor. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 1:58pm
Ahhh.... but a little 4 cylinder boat motor might work out well. Ya never know....  LOL! Sorry, even though I'm older, Cool factors still excite me. C'mon' Steve M. where's your sense of excitement!   LOL!!   Big smile
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 2:59pm
I hear ya Steve but I have so much crap around here with engines to keep up that I'm reduced to "KISS". Went from dreaming to surviving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 7:50pm
for work tractor it would be awaste of time but for a play tractor i have allways wanted to put a straight 8 hudson or buick in an unstyled with lots of carbs
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dnoym N. S. Can. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 8:36pm
We put a 6 cly chev in a tractor one
time and it was no good for anything.
Because the 6cly would run from 800
to 3200 +rpm and the tractor motor
would run from 400 to 1800rpm.
No good for plowing or in the wood
or mowing  even
would go 35mph in first just something
to get hurt on. just so you know ;
maybe you could put a transfer case and
run it in low range
do what you want make no difference to me
   B:-)         Dnoy
in first gear
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 9:20pm
I live in both worlds, the practical, and the geewiz! I always used to tell both my sons, never mess with the ride you are depending on, if you want a hot rod, build a hot rod, but they cannot be the same vehicle
I am still confident of this;
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be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote frnkeore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 1:27am
I contemplated doing this with one of my Ford tractors, a 850 (302 engine) but, although there are adapters for the 8N, there's noting for the 6 or 800's so, I haven't done it yet.

But, there is a way to get the low end torque. I called Howards Cams and told a tech guy what I wanted and told him to make a cam for me, using the basic Ford tractor, cam timing. I modified the timing slightly, based on a computer program but, you can give the cam maker, any timing you want and Howards, will make it for $135, shipped. That's what I paid for my Ford cam, a SBC would be the same price.

My suggestion is to do that and use the cam timing for what ever rpm you want, based on the original engine. The Fords have their max HP at 2200 rpm and the max torque is at 1300, I think.

For a WD, I would use the D17 cam timing, their max HP, is at 1650 rpm (WD's are 1300).

There is still a issue for tractor pulls. The rules that I run under, require a mechanical governor. If they don't require that, you can run a adjustable carb governor.

At a swap meet, I bought a yellow (Cat?) mech governor, to try and adapt. Not a easy thing to do.

This is the D17 timing, if you give this info, to them, they will plot the lobe profile for you, at no charge and you'll have a 1650 rpm, SBC with usable power.

Edited by frnkeore - 26 Feb 2020 at 1:25pm
Frank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sploke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 12:23pm
One thing I just thought of, as far as going to the second option I have of installing the chevy engine and a 3 speed manual transmission, ditching the hand clutch and PTO and hooking up directly to the AC trans input shaft, would allow me to run the engine at a much higher RPM while still keeping the wheel speeds low byt keeping both transmissions in low gear (think doodlebug kind of situation).

I'm not sure how to reconcile some of the earlier posts...some people say the engine is too powerful and is going to blow up the rear end, others say it will be so underpowered it will be useless.  According to tractordata.com, the WD45 226 was rated for around 280ft lbs of torque near 800rpm.  The chevy motor, in this form, is rated for about 265ft lbs, I haven't found the torque curve yet but I think it peaks near 1800rpm.  So, obviously higher than the 226 but not outrageously high like a Honda engine.

As far as "simply" picking up a cheap replacement...that was obviously my first choice.  I'm located in CT and there just isn't a lot of AC content in this area.  Most of what I'm finding is minimum 6 hours away, and a lot of it has been either complete tractors for very high listing price (3k+, not including transport), or engines or engine blocks of questionable origin and condition.  I'm not interested in investing 12-15hrs of driving plus yet another rebuild (time and material) just to find I have another leaker or something else is broken and practically unobtanium for me.  I can always sovle that by getting the block magnafluxed prior to rebuild, but that activity really starts to add up.  While there is a fair amount of up-front work needed to get the chevy engine in there, I have very high confidence in its longevity and parts are super easy to source.  So, that's my logic.  I'm clearly not interested in turning this thing into a toy or a display piece - I bought it to work and need it to continue.


Edited by sploke - 26 Feb 2020 at 12:45pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sploke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by LouSWPA LouSWPA wrote:

I live in both worlds, the practical, and the geewiz! I always used to tell both my sons, never mess with the ride you are depending on, if you want a hot rod, build a hot rod, but they cannot be the same vehicle

I'm typically of the same mind, but the tractor is already unusable so that ship has sailed, unfortunately.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 12:58pm
Spoken with pure Logic Luigi.  Yeah, I can understand sploke, its a different story if you live in an area where there isn't a lot of Tractors or Tractor parts yards around especially AC Tractors to pick parts from. Makes it a little more difficult. I have the same problem around here. You havta' travel to get stuff or have it shipped if feasible.  Some of the fellers like the good Dr. may have more around them to pick up needed parts and to put a Tractor back in service faster and make the job more practical. For me, I don't have 40 acres to plow, just 3.5 to mow, and I do that with my ZT, so doing the WC over as a hotrod, is just plain fun for me.  I'm a hotrodder by heart, but that's just me....  Big smile   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sploke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Feb 2020 at 1:08pm
Don't get me wrong...this tractor is not something I depend on to earn a living.  I use it to more easily accomplish jobs around the yard I'd otherwise be renting equipment for.  Plus I do enjoy wrenching on old stuff (classic chevy, classic motorcycle, 1973 Sears garden tractor...) but I do get to the point where I would eventually like to spend more time using the stuff than fixing it :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jeickman01 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 2:47pm
Interesting thread.  Without throwing a whole lot of numbers at it I'd like to just suggest that as others have said, tractor engines are designed to develop higher torque at lower rpm than automotive engines and the gear trains are matched to this.  I'm not an expert; I never finished a degree in engineering but I think it has to do with bore and stroke not just cam timing and duration.  I have read my fair share of Hot Rod magazines and therefore can appreciate a project but I love the simplicity and sound of my old D17 gas.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sploke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 3:19pm
So, there's still a question I am looking for an answer on.  Where the transmission input shaft enters the rear transmission/diff housing, is there a shaft seal at that point?  A little hard to see from this drawing, but the face around the highlighted area.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 6:09pm
No seal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sploke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:


No seal.


Thank you!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jack(Ky) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Feb 2020 at 7:51pm
Actually you might could use a Chevy flywheel  and clutch. The clutch plate is already the same as a Chevy anyway. The adapter wouldn't be that hard to make. I would set the engine up there and see how far off it is. A lot of people have done this swap so it can't be rocket science.
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