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Hunt4Allis 
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 Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 7:51pm |
 DrAllis wrote:
No familiar with that little 4 banger, but all the larger Case engines were wet sleeves. |
Yup it's a wet sleeve according to the shop manual I have for it...
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 7:54pm |
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Hunt... with the valve cover and oil pan off.... fill the radiator with water and look to see where it is coming out...
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 8:00pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
Hunt... with the valve cover and oil pan off.... fill the radiator with water and look to see where it is coming out... |
Ok thanks fellas
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 6:05pm |
Les Kerf wrote:
As mentioned above, many older engines (not just AC) were designed to allow bearing adjustment using shims; about 20 years ago I did an in-frame freshen-up on a neighbor's Model M Farmall using 0.002" undersize rod bearings. It still runs fine.
I freshened up my 1941 John Deere Model A about 30 years ago; it has the poured babbitt rod bearings with shim adjustment. I forget how many shims I removed, but it wasn't over 0.003" or 0.004". I'm pretty sure my grandson will still be running it after I am long gone.
Some years ago an old retired mechanic friend was cleaning out his shop as he was downsizing; he showed me some tapered shims for putting underneath rod bearing shells. He said he hadn't done that in many years though. I wish that I had asked him for them just as memorabilia.
I have seen rods that someone filed the caps by hand to tighten up bearing clearances. The engines ran successfully for many years, but I still do not recommend it.
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I'm not quite envisioning how removing a shim could tighten anything up? I'm not trying to start any arguments or be difficult I'm just not experienced but trying to learn anything that anyone can tell me that is helpful so if you can add anything to what you're saying to help me understand I'd appreciate it?
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 6:09pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
Hunt... with the valve cover and oil pan off.... fill the radiator with water and look to see where it is coming out... |
I haven't run this much but it kind of perplexed me seeing a bunch of separated antifreeze come out when I pulled the drain plug like it was or had freshly emptied into the oil so I am not sure what I will be able to see as far as where it's leaking from with the head still on the block and as far as adding water it's actually completely full in the radiator of antifreeze now (I refilled it because when I bought it they said it had a small pinhole leak in the radiator so that's where I figured the antifreeze was going but I guess it could be partially true but it's definitely going into the oil one way or another? Thanks Matt
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 6:10pm |
Hunt, the OLDER engines did not have the bearing caps bolt up FLUSH against the rod ( or the block on the mains).... There were several thin SHIMS in a PACK that set between the rod and the cap with the bolt running thru them... Normally this was .006 inch... After the crank wore down 3-4 thousands ( including the bearing wear) , you could take out some of the shims to get back to proper clearance.. When you took out all the shims, the cap was setting FLUSH on the ROD and the bearing would actually be .006 smaller in the vertical direction.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Mar 2022 at 6:19pm
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 6:14pm |
OK... taking the pan off allows you to see if there is antifreeze dripping around the liners ( o-rings worn out)... taking the valve cover off allows you to see if there are holes rusted thru any freeze plugs on top of the head... The radiator will go down a couple inches if the freeze plugs leak... will be half empty if the liner o-rings leak.. If it only leaks when RUNNING, then probably a very small crack in the head gasket , or head itself.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Mar 2022 at 6:22pm
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 7:35pm |
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Steve, thanks much makes sense to me.
If radiator is already full will I be able to see antifreeze leaking out somewhere with head on? ( Once I get this far in I will pull head off and keep checking deeper until I feel I'm at the cause of sound motor is making and how antifreeze is getting into my oil) thanks Matt
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 7:41pm |
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depends on where the leak is compared to level of the radiator... sometimes you can take a hand pump and put 10 psi on the radiator cap and "LISTEN- LOOK" to see if there are any leaks on top of the head or under the cylinder liners....... If nothing, then head or head gasket crack is a good bet.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 9:02pm |
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Ok, need a 10 psi hand pump for radiator cap, thanks
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 03 Mar 2022 at 9:21pm |
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you can rent one at Auto Store, or you can take a Weed Sprayer, take off the nozzle and connect the wand tube to a modified cap, heater hose fitting, block drain ... etc.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 6:21am |
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Ok thanks for info
I wonder if this motor has shims like you talk about( I will find out once taken apart but would that be shown in my repair manual I bought for it?) It very detailed around 1500 pages... I bought the best one that I could find b/c I knew buying this one needed some TLC! It's a 1972 case diesel 4 cylinder 188cu engine if anyone knows anything I'd appreciate any info you can share as these motors were pretty commonly used for many different machines case put out
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 7:56am |
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Most of the engines with SHIMS were gasoline and from the 1930 -50 era .... Pretty sure the G188 Diesel from 1972 did not have shims. .......... i think most of the discussion above about shims , started when you brought up oversize bearings....not really a concern with the G188.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 8:07am |
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All shimmed engines like mentioned above are like Steve said, low rpm low compression gas engines. I cannot think of a diesel engine that would be like that. Way too much loading on the rods/bearings to have that non precise fit lol! Shimmed ones were also poured babbit too in some cases, which is where the need arose to start with. The introduction of replaceable bearing shells kind of made that setup obsolete.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 8:13am |
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Ok, good to know
Thanks
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 8:09pm |
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I'm reading about fuel injector being stuck open can cause a engine knock sound. It sounds like to me that if I crack each one of the four injector lines and I get to one that when I crack it the knock goes away or drastically lessens then it could be a faulty injector, does this sound correct in procedure to troubleshoot? I would think if it was a rod bearing or any other kind of bearing or something mechanical that if I crack the injector line a slight bit individually and the noise never goes away then it's probably not the injectors correct?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 8:47pm |
another way to look at it is, if you open the fuel line and nor injection, then no explosion and no great downward force on the piston..... i would think that would change the "noise" if it is internal ..(bearing). ???
now if you tested the injectors... then switched them to different cylinders and the LOSS of noise followed the injector, that might prove something... dont know if it works or not.
Edited by steve(ill) - 04 Mar 2022 at 8:54pm
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 04 Mar 2022 at 10:27pm |
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I would think even just because of the other three cylinders still rotating that you would still get noise if it's a worn rod bearing. I think the only thing that it will tell you is that if your injector is let's say still working but not correctly as in if it's plugged slightly or badly and you crack the line to it and the knocking noise stops then from what I've read and other places it means the injector is needing either cleaned or replaced, I may try this over the weekend. The only thing that has me concerned is that it's being fed from a high pressure pump so when I crack it will it spray 2,000 PSI diesel all over the place?
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 04 Mar 2022 at 10:28pm
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 05 Mar 2022 at 6:17am |
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Most conversations I hear talking about injectors are people troubleshooting them to see if they are working or not by cracking the line that feeds them. not cracking the line to check to see if it's mechanical knocking. I guess if I do it and find one that stops the noise I know I've got a faulty injector. I don't like how close this will be to the exhaust manifold in relation to fuel possibly spraying out near that that is very hot? Some places say to put a rag around it to limit spray?
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 05 Mar 2022 at 6:18am
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Ray54
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Posted: 05 Mar 2022 at 1:22pm |
My guess is Steve is correct that with a whole that is not firing the bearing will not get pushed as hard and would sound different. But if you can hear this with all the other sounds I have no idea. One of the times a stethoscope might be handy.
You don't have to have the line clear off. Just lose will relieve pressure so injector will not pop open. But always better safe than sorry, so a rag to stop spray would be good.
 Experience would be good.  Until to much experience is bad in that your hearing is not so good. 
Combine per season fix it week, go to town for parts and get lunch. Leave a flat tire from pickup to be fixed, do the other things in town. They put fixed tire on head home. Going down main street in town 30 mph me in the middle of dad and uncle windows down. I hear air hissing dad says cannot be, nobody could hear that. Uncle says stop. The newly repaired tire is hissing good. Just made it back to the tire shop. The good old days of tubes in tires. The tube was pinched in the bead. But that was over 50 years ago, my ears are no longer near that good today.  Dam noisy tractors, an I was using cotton in my ears before I got out of high school running the HD 5 with DD 2 cycle. Then discovered the real foam ear plugs in my 20's. Dang I hate sitting next noisy cars, trucks, and motor bikes at stop lights. Just thankful I hear as much as I do. |
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CTuckerNWIL
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Posted: 05 Mar 2022 at 2:38pm |
Hunt4Allis wrote:
Ok, need a 10 psi hand pump for radiator cap, thanks |
If you have an air compressor, you don't need any kind of other pump. What you need is a regulator to put on your air hose and set it to 7 to 10 PSI. Then you put regulated air pressure to the top of the radiator.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 05 Mar 2022 at 6:45pm |
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Okay I bet I can even get one that's already attached to a radiator cap right?
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 7:39am |
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Well I did some searching and cannot find a radiator cap that has a fitting in the top for pressurizing the system with an air compressor?
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 8:34am |
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Is there a pipe plug on the block or head somewhere. That is how I tested a 170 once. Replace plug with an air fitting
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 8:41am |
look for a heater hose plug, or put a TEE in the heater hose, or a block drain valve or drain plug as plummer said.
or take an old cap and drill a hole thru it for 1/4 inch pipe fitting.
Edited by steve(ill) - 06 Mar 2022 at 8:44am
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 11:46am |
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If the radiator has a pinhole in it going to the block would be a better place also correct? I don't know how that works if I pressurize the block at the drain plug will it pull the antifreeze out of the radiator and still show me the leak? Not sure how these are connected technically?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 12:26pm |
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everything on the cooling system ( antifreeze) is connected.. You can put pressure on the radiator, block , head fitting, drain, heater hose, radiator hose... anything... and it will pressurize everything.. With pressure on the block drain, you will get leakage at the pin hole on the radiator.
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 2:13pm |
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Ok thanks
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Hunt4Allis
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Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 2:59pm |
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I guess with the sound that I'm hearing that if I can't confirm that it's a injector fault that's causing it that putting compressed air into it to find where it's leaking is probably in my mind I keep thinking is it worth doing that because I'll probably need to take the head off to replace the parts that are damaged or worn anyways correct?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 06 Mar 2022 at 4:31pm |
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getting as much info before hand is a good idea.. What if you take the head off and see nothing.. Then take the oil pan off and see one rod bearing is damaged.. You replace the bearing and the head gasket and your done ?................. what if the o-rings on the cylinder liner were damaged and that was causing the antifreeze leak into the oil pan, and that caused BAD lube to the crank bearing ?? ............ more info is always better... unless you are pulling the crank and all liners and doing a COMPLETE inspection.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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