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Push rods got bent

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THEFOX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Push rods got bent
    Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 5:10am
My neighbor has a 175 Allis that had a water leak into the oil so he pulled the head off thinking it was the head gasket at fault. By the way it's a 226 gas engine. So he gets a new gasket and also has the head checked for cracks. Head is good so he puts it back together and cranks' it over and it bends four push rods!!!! What happened here? Valves are not stuck I tried them all. When he got the head back did he get the same one he took in? I don't know. Are there other heads that appear the same but differ in thickness? It appears to me that the rocker shaft pedestals are too short! Even with the adjusting screws backed all the way off you cannot tighten down the shaft without compressing the valve springs to the limit! Is there a spacer that fits between the head and the pedestals? Also what is the firing order of this engine? It seems weird to me 1243 is that right?
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Charlie175 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charlie175 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 5:25am
I'm not aware that the head on the 175 was any different than a D17 series.
Yes the Firing order is 1243
Are you sure you have the rods inserted fully?
Charlie

'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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THEFOX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 5:47am
Yes the push rods are in place correctly.
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WF owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 5:58am
Did they use the correct rocker arm "stands"? It sounds line they used the shorter stands when they rebuilt the head.

The correct stand should be 1.945" high.


Edited by WF owner - 20 Oct 2016 at 6:05am
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THEFOX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 6:47am
I'll check on the stands today!
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Gary Burnett View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Burnett Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 7:13am
I'd double check the seating of the push rods,at any rate when I send a head,crank or anything to a shop I usually put some small mark  on it that can't easily be taken off or noticed.Learned to do that years ago when working in a auto salvage yard,people would buy a used motor and bring the bad one they took out and claim it was the engine we sold them.
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Don(MO) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Don(MO) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 8:03am
If all the work is done right like installing the push rods, not changing the rocker arm assy. then look at what was done to the head like did the shop install new valves and or seats, plane the head? I'm thinking the shop might have installed the seats to deep in the head and or might be the wrong valves.
3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep.

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Brian G. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian G.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 8:59am
The push rods are the same length for either the short or the tall head.
Therefore, the short head uses tall rocker stands and the tall head uses short stands.
So, is it possible they could have given you a short head in place of the original tall head? Otherwise (unlikely), it would seem that the valve stem length is wrong or (even more unlikely) you installed longer push rods from some other engine.
BTW, The short heads (used on the WCs and WDs prior to "engine" ser. #289001
are 3" thick and the tall heads used on later WD 201 engines and all the 226 engines measure 4" thick.
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THEFOX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 9:47am
Thanks Guys for the quick response as, of tomorrow I'll be going to have my hip replaced and will be laid up a while. Thanks again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 10:14am
The measures 3 7/8" thick, the rocker arm pedestals measure just a hair over 1 15/16" . All new valves installed it appears as the stem ends show no signs of wear. Rocker arm assembly also appears all new as it is nice and shiney.
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Brian G. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian G.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 11:35am
Just curious....were the 4 bent push rods either all exhaust or all intake valves?

Good luck on you hip; my son had a ceramic one installed a few years ago....what a relief after all the years of pain. Virtually none after the new hip.
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THEFOX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 12:07pm
Not sure which they were as I didn't take it apart. Thanks for the good wishes.
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THEFOX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 12:13pm
With out taking the head off does anyone know what the valve height would be measuring from the spring seat on  the head to the end of the stem would be?
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Leon n/c AR. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leon n/c AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 3:59pm
Did he adjust the valves to correct clearance when reassembling. Leon
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 4:42pm
So.....are there marks on the pistons from valves hitting? Only way to bend push rods if valves aren't stuck is for valves to hit piston or springs to bottom out, not sure what will happen first but if valve stems are too long you will definitely have that problem. Were rocker arms disassembled from shaft? Did they get flipped upside down or backwards?
1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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Brian G. NY View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian G.  NY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 4:51pm
I hope you find out what happened and post your results.

Edited by Brian G. NY - 20 Oct 2016 at 8:40pm
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Dick L View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 6:00pm
I take it turning the engine over by hand to watch and check what was going on was not part of the process!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 5:19am
Originally he cranked it over with the starter. Since I've been helping out we've turned it by the pto shaft. While doing that the springs are bottoming out it appears. I think the valves are too long. Can't tell if there are any marks on the pistons as we have not taken the head off. The rockers are all right and were not disassembled. I looked at a couple of D17s yesterday and they measured the same as the 175.  Once I get back on my feet I'll dig into it more. What is the length of the proper valves? Today I go for hip replacement so I,m out of commission till then.  Thanks much guys.
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 6:33am
Are you sure you don't have the rocker arm supports flipped upside down?? This is silly. Something that should have taken 3 to 4 hrs to do has turned into a nitemare.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 12:44pm
Something is really screwie here! If I remember I'll take a rough measure of the E head up at the shop...(valve tip height)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bill_MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 3:01pm
I think it would be difficult to get all wrong sizes on the valves. To have a valve with too long a stem but exactly the right dimensions otherwise, then to have springs that are also that much too tall seems like a large coincidence. There could be a bad vendor out there selling the wrong set, wonder if anyone else has had this problem?
1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 4:55pm
Do you or the shop still have the old valves and other parts for the head? It would help to double check the parts against the new parts. I am thinking that the rods where not seated right when the head was put back on the motor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 8:20am
The push rods fit in a hole in the lifters so you can feel if they are in place or not. I just gat out of the hospital so won't be going outside for awhile. Once I get the head off I can check a few other things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AaronSEIA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:30am
Is it even possible to have the rods not seated properly and have the valve train go together?
AaronSEIA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan73 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:39am
When I put my d15 together I got one of the rods jammed up off to the side when I put it in felt funny so I asked the mechanic who I hired and was helping. It looks right at the top but was not seated right. I have no idea if you could have actually got the valve train together just thought it was worth mentioning that they can drop in and jam up.
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THEFOX View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote THEFOX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 2:58pm
I replied on a new post as I couldn't find this one.
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