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Oil filter failure |
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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My new D-14 showed good oil pressure on the gauge and I guess it had plenty.
![]() Anybody know what caused this or how to correct it I don't want to do this to many times, because filters aren't cheap. Thanks for any help or opinions. |
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22825 |
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Maybe your relief valve is frozen??? Was it a new filter, maybe it was defective??
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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It wasn't brand new, but I don't know how old because I just got the tractor. It will peg the gauge when first started but comes down to the middle or slightly higher once it is warm.
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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Chad(WI) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NE Wisconsin Points: 957 |
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Boy, never seen that. Almost looks like it froze somehow?
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Jack(Ky) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ky Points: 1153 |
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The relief valve somewhere is stuck. There is one in the oil pump and another at the front of the camshaft. When I bought my ol14 the oil gauge was rusty so I stuck one on from a car that read 80 psi. When it warmed up it wouldn't show any pressure so I put a washer behind the spring in the oil pump and I had great pressure but when the weather started getting cooler it would do the filters just like that. I took out the washer and got a gauge made for low pressure and it was fine. That was thirty years ago. I doubt anything was wrong with the filter. Wix is a high quality filter even though for some reason a few years ago they changed the design on the AC filter for awhile and it gave them a bad name. The one you have is the good one and I have never had a problem with them and I use mine to feed hay every other day in winter. Hope this helps.JP
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farmtoybuilder ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Dresden,Ohio Points: 1457 |
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I would be putting a test guage on it that shows pressure in #s and see exactly what it has. But it sounds like you have an oil pressure relief valve problem. As most only run half way on guage. a little more cold/ Our old D-14 engine is low on oil pressure gauge never goes over half cold.
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5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them.
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Dave H ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Central IL Points: 3583 |
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I would screw it off and look for ice/water.
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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I didn't see any water or ice and there was no unscrewing it. It blew right off the base.
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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R.W ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Dec 2010 Location: Swanton, OH Points: 2975 |
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I have heard of that happing a few times. Faulty oil filter or a plugged up filter that had a bad relief valve.
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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I think I'm going to change the oil to 5-30 and swap a filter off one of my WD's on it in case it blows that out too and see what she does in the morning. Is the pressure relief accesable from the outside like the 201 and 226 engines?
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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darrel in ND ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Hebron, ND Points: 8719 |
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I could be wrong, but I think the oil filter should have been of the cotton nature, and that is what is supposed to build up a little resistance and give you oil pressure. I know it sounds strange, but there was much discussion on the topic a few years ago and I believe it pertained to D14's and 17's. Maybe someone that knows more will chime in. Only thing that don't add up though, is that a faulty oil filter would cause a lack of oil pressure. Darrel
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Have saw this happen on a D15. Ball in front of cam shaft was stuck. MACK
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21905 |
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But, a D14 should be the "bypass" oil filtering system with the standpipe up thru the center ( like a WD45)......is the hole from the filter base to the block plugged so oil can't get out???
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Chalmersbob ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Pennsylvania Points: 2122 |
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You have to take the radiator off to get at the pressure relief valve. There is a square plate, on the timing cover, that must be removed, very carefully, and a spring and ball are behind the thrust plunger. My plunger was rusted really bad and I replaced it when I overhauled the engine.
Bob
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Jack(Ky) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ky Points: 1153 |
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Didn't you say you just bought it? I wouldn't do anything to it until I changed the oil and put on a new filter. If you don't know what it has in it then it could have maybe 50 weight racing oil or something in it to keep good pressure. This works good as long as you drain it before winter. I ran mine for about 25 years til I finally done a complete rebuild on it. I used to use the heavy racing oil and it would hold pretty good pressure all summer but you had to get it out before cold weather. I used to have a car I did the same thing with but like I say it had to come out for the winter.JP
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Jack(Ky) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ky Points: 1153 |
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Darrell, I don't know why that material looks like that but they do have the cotton in them. I use the Wix 57011 and it is the proper filter for the D14 and others.JP
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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I think I am going to swap change the oil out and try some 5w30 and see what that does for pressure.
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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Stan IL&TN ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Elvis Land Points: 6730 |
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I'd also make sure it's above freezing when you start it up..............just to be safe.
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1957 WD45 dad's first AC
1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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New 5w30 oil had no effect. I stuck on a old filter to see what happened and it started to swell up so I shut her down. I guess I need to start looking into what is causing this. I noticed that there is oil in the base where the filter mounts and it drains away slowly, but it doesn't seem to be restricted. I see a small plate on the timing cover with four nuts retaining it, is this the plate that holds the pressure relief valve? it seems that it would be accessible without removing the radiator, can I just pop the plate off and check to see if there are any shims and remove the ball and spring to check them over or is it possible to loose pieces in to the engine this way?
Thanks for all the help so far,
Denis |
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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Gerald J. ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |
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Is the bypass filter on the drain side of the pressure relief valve? Then it should drain to the crankcase and never see much pressure. Isn't that why the paper filter failed, it let too much oil flow freely so the regulator didn't hold oil pressure? If that's the case then that drain line is plugged, probably with chunks of the previous filter filling.
Gerald J. |
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Jack(Ky) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ky Points: 1153 |
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The filter puts back pressure on the system. That is why the "new design" Wix came out with a few years ago didn't work right. I still don't why they did that. The oil pump has a relief in it and the cam does too but I can't think how it all works. I do know when I shimmed the valve in my oil pump it swelled the filters up.JP
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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Ok, so I put a magnetic heater on the oil pan and left it until the oil was good and hot then I tried to fire it up. It started up fine and made the gauge go about 3/4 of the way to maxing out. This was ok because it didn't affect the filter. So I drove it in the shop to investigate. My plan is to pull the radiator out and check the relief valve. Is there anything else I should check while its apart?
Thanks for all the help so far, Denis
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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Tony.Or ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Mar 2010 Location: Oregon Points: 1498 |
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Denis. Check for correct thickness plate end of cam. Albert had this problem last summer , i sent correct thickness plate , problem solved. No more ruined filters . Tony
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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So I pulled it apart and found out that the "Thrust Plate" as it is called in my shop manual, is missing, it is the piece that goes between the "Thrust Plunger" and the Cover. From what I can figure I should have the opposite of my problem with that piece missing. So I am a bit confused at the moment.
Any ideas? Thanks, Denis
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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Can any body shed some light on how the D14 oil system works? I was under the impression that it is a bypass filtration system, but I only see one line coming out of the pump then it goes into the filter base. I don't see any other outlet for oil to come out of the pump?
Thanks, Denis
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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Gary ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Peterborough,On Points: 5900 |
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Oil pump is located at rear end of cam. and I believe most of the oil is pumped through a passageway inside cam.
Gary
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22825 |
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One line goes to the filter base and is fed through the filter and teed to the pressure gauge. Back pressure on the filter limits how much oil goes through it. What doesn't go through the filter gets pumped through the engine internally. |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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So does oil come out of the pump in two places or just the one line that I can see, I assume that the filter base is made just like the ones on the B,C,WC,WD,WD45 and just dumps back to the crankcase?
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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Denis in MI ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 15 Sep 2009 Location: Norvell, MI Points: 832 |
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OK, So I most certainly have a oil pressure issue. I installed a gauge that has numbers and I have well over 100 PSI at the oil filter base and the port on the side of the block. I am using 5w30 oil and the temperature outside is about 24. The relief valve is unseating because it is leaking oil out of its cover, so I don't really know where to turn from here.
Any ideas? Denis
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1938 B, 1945 B, 1941 IB, 1949 C, 2 1938 WCs, 3 1950 WDs, 1951 WD, 2 1955 WD45, 1957 D-14
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21905 |
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Remove the base and make absitively sure the hole into the block is open and can easily let air blow thru it and the base is free flowing as well to the block.
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