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Not AC but need engine help guys!!!! |
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 11:33pm |
Ok guys, here's the scoop. This may be a little long but I'm desperate to figure this out. And since the engine I'm dealing with is a lot like these tractor engine thought I would try here. I am trying to resurrect a 49 studebaker champion with 33,000 original on it. Been sitting in a barn for 30 years not running. Well after rebuilding the carb, new plugs, new wires, new points and condenser, radiator fix, water pump rebuilt, took the head off because cylinder number 3 had 0 compression, fixed the valve that was stuck wide open. Adjusted the valves to where the are suppose to be and cleaned them thoroughly, new fuel pump and gas line, everything you could think of has been replaced, rebuilt, or fixed in one form or another. Now for the issue. It purrs like a kitten on steroids at idle and through the low rpms. When you go to rev it up or get into higher rpms it falls flat on its face. No power. Cuts out spudders spits coughs anything and everything but run right. Engine shakes back and forth while it does this. This thing has a lot more power than what its showing. Can't drive it any where past 20-25 mph. Has great low end torque but high end is so lame its embarrassing. I have a wedding in 12 days and I gotta get this thing running right. Anyone have anything?
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Can't fix stupid
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Flint23 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Jan 2011 Location: New Haven In Points: 429 |
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wild guess...vacuum leak or timing off a bit.. how's the compression now?
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been there done that, not doing it again...
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Gerald J. ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |
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Main jet in the carburetor is plugged. Or the fuel line in plugged so its starving for fuel. I've seen a tractor engine that would only idle for a minute then shut down and wouldn't run faster because the hidden screen in the fuel inlet adapter fitting was clogged with varnish. Wouldn't pass 60 psi air (all the pressure that was in my portable tank that day) and I've seen fuel lines clogged with varnish to give the same effect. And it could be the intake manifold gasket rotted.
Ignition timing could be stuck at idle, though that usually doesn't show up as rough running, retarded timing when it needs it to be advanced, just makes it low on power but very smooth. Gerald J. |
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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Checked timing and cleaned carb twice
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Can't fix stupid
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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Played with the timing. Advanced in manually. No change. Compression is around 100 on all cylinders. Manifold gasket is new.
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Can't fix stupid
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Mike_426 ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 07 Dec 2011 Location: Ypsilanti Mi Points: 138 |
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Is there a pcv valve under the valve cover? Had a similar problem on an old dump truck, was bad causing serious vacuum problem, good luck
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G, 200, 8050 mfd, D17, 195 chainsaw, c-wide front
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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There is a vent that comes out of one of the valve covers. This is a flat head engine.
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Can't fix stupid
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TramwayGuy ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11753 |
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A 1949 would not have PCV, would be a road draft tube.
Two possibilities that I would check. Condensor (yes, I know you changed it, but they can be bad out of the box); and ignition coil. Another might be restriction in exhaust. For a more arcane reason, could the engine be moving enough in its mounts to lose its electrical ground or power connection?
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AllisUpstate ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 06 May 2011 Location: Upstate NY Points: 1261 |
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AJ,
I'd still go with fuel, even though you cleaned the carbs twice. There might still be a bit of rust or blockage in one of the jet passageways, or even further back. The fuel pump might have a partially ruptured diaphragm, giving it enough to idle on but not run. Like others have said, on the electrical side, about the only thing remaining could be a seized up advance mechanism, but a timing light would reveal that fairly quickly. Whatever you find out, please let everyone know. |
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Steve in NJ ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 11994 |
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Something thats been sitting that long might have a mouse nest in the muffler or exhaust pipe somewhere and is blocking the exhaust from exiting at higher throttle. Had that happen years ago to a customer that had a 64 Chevy Nova. Sat for many years in a little ole lady's garage. He got it running, but it wouldn't go over a certain rpm. The engine would flatten out. (6 cylinder) Brought it to me to figure out. I found a mouse condo in the exhaust system. What tipped me off was the burnt seat cushion particals at the tailpipe! It also had this funny smell to it while it was running. It definately did not have a cat converter on it thats fir' sure!
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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The car don't have an actual exhaust right now. It's about 3'of pipe right now. Exhaust was falling off.
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Can't fix stupid
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22825 |
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Maybe you should just sell it to me and I can put that engine in my 48 M5 pickup
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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I can't do that. If I did I wouldn't be getting married then. Besides you wouldn't want to pay the price she would want.
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Can't fix stupid
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mtanut ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: sandy lake, pa Points: 545 |
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I would try gravity feeding gas to it and see how it runs. There is a possibility that the cam is wore enough that it isn't pumping enough gas. Other thing is check the condenser as mentioned and also pull the distributor and check to see if there is slop in the shaft. Good luck.
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I have a 185 Allis, 6060 Allis, Model K gleaner, SMTA ferg 35, ferg 20 (paps first tractor, Allis B (wife's)John Deere 240 skid loader and a bunch of the usual farm stuff.
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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Tried the gravity with the fuel. Took distributer out and went through it. Condenser was replaced
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Can't fix stupid
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TramwayGuy ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11753 |
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Rebuilt the carb? Sometimes a gasket can be upside down and block a critical orifice.
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Bob in Md. ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Salisbury, Md. Points: 27 |
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Hi fuel pump is bad
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Karl in MD ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Location: Pocomoke, MD Points: 97 |
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Did you change the polarity of the ignition system? It would have been positive ground, and if you switched the polarity of the battery to negative ground, it will make the spark so weak that it won't do much more than idle. Don't ask me how I know this or how many hours it took to figure it out.
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A man's got to know his limitations.
'51 WD, Roto-Baler,, A-C rake, '44 C, '42 B |
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Dave Richards (WV) ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Fairmont, WV Points: 881 |
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Steve, is that Cat converter used to eliminate the mice?????
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Dick L ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5087 |
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That was the same flat head engine that I used in the race car I bulit in 1960. I had that thing apart so many times. Seemed about every other week I pulled the engine. Tried a couple of different crankshafts. I had the carburetor apart several times and for the life of me I cannot remember if it had an accelerator pump. Seems it should have. Snappy little flat head.
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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Karl, it does have a "weak" spark at the points but how would than effect the way it runs at higher rpms?
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Can't fix stupid
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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I have a new distributer advance diaphragm being over nighted in for tomorrow for it to try that at least.
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Can't fix stupid
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Brian Jasper co. Ia ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Prairie City Ia Points: 10508 |
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Have you actually checked fuel pressure? The way you describe it makes me think lack of fuel. Just for grins and giggles fab up a separate fuel tank and electric fuel pump and see what happens.
When you looked at the spark, what is it putting out to the plug? There will always be a tiny bit of arcing at the points. One more thing to check is the wire to the points from the coil inside the dizzy. I have seen that wire break from being flexed by the vacuum advance.
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"Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford
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Karl in MD ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 04 Nov 2009 Location: Pocomoke, MD Points: 97 |
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If the spark is weak when you work the points manually, it's not going to be strong enough to fire the plugs under compression. at idle, a weak spark is okay, because the engine is not having to work, but when it's under more load, the plugs will misfire. Check your polarity. Is the system still 6 volt? is it still positive ground? If it's been switched to negative ground, you need to switch the wires on the coil, otherwise, you're trying to feed current to the points through the entire car frame, and fire the plugs from the side electrode. It sounds weird, but an old mechanic showed me, and it does make a difference.
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A man's got to know his limitations.
'51 WD, Roto-Baler,, A-C rake, '44 C, '42 B |
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Duey (IA) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Forest City,IA Points: 252 |
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If the battery is grounded to the frame, you need a ground strap from the engine to the frame so the spark can complete the circuit.
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Fight Organized Crime, Do not re-elect them!
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AJ ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 31 Oct 2010 Location: mo Points: 5244 |
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Well the positive side of the battery goes to the engine. Negative goes to the starter. So what does that mean?
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Can't fix stupid
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jlogli ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Oct 2011 Location: Stockport, IA Points: 862 |
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Not enough back pressure with exhaust pipe? |
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1945 WC on full steel, WD wide front, WD45 power steering, 1966 D-17IVfactory 3 point.1967 D-17IV SC. 1973 rotobaler white top. orange top roto, model 90 combine,82S, four bottom plow.302 baler.
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TramwayGuy ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 19 Jan 2010 Location: Northern NY Points: 11753 |
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If the cables are like you say, it is correctly postive grounded.
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CTuckerNWIL ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22825 |
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If the positive side of the battery is hooked directly to the engine block, you should be fine. Then check the coil and see if the + side of it goes to the distributor. It should.
Now if you don't have enough spark to jump 1/4 inch gap (at the plug) and still make a bright blue spark, you need to fix whatever is causing the weak spark. If you have replaced the condenser, it could still be the problem. New ones now days are pretty junky. You might have a problem with the coil. Make SURE it's grounded good to the block. Might be worth a try to replace that too, with the proper coil for whatever voltage you are running. Now, a new gas line, fuel pump and rebuilt carb won't do much good if you have blockage in the tank itself. Could be a bad gas cap not venting or you might have some crud in the tank that limits the amount of fuel getting to the carb. |
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http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
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Thad in AR. ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Arkansas Points: 9658 |
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100 isn't good compression. Are you sure the other valves aren't sticking?
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