Not AC but need engine help guys!!!!
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55930
Printed Date: 08 Sep 2025 at 6:43pm
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Topic: Not AC but need engine help guys!!!!
Posted By: AJ
Subject: Not AC but need engine help guys!!!!
Date Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 11:33pm
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Ok guys, here's the scoop. This may be a little long but I'm desperate to figure this out. And since the engine I'm dealing with is a lot like these tractor engine thought I would try here. I am trying to resurrect a 49 studebaker champion with 33,000 original on it. Been sitting in a barn for 30 years not running. Well after rebuilding the carb, new plugs, new wires, new points and condenser, radiator fix, water pump rebuilt, took the head off because cylinder number 3 had 0 compression, fixed the valve that was stuck wide open. Adjusted the valves to where the are suppose to be and cleaned them thoroughly, new fuel pump and gas line, everything you could think of has been replaced, rebuilt, or fixed in one form or another. Now for the issue. It purrs like a kitten on steroids at idle and through the low rpms. When you go to rev it up or get into higher rpms it falls flat on its face. No power. Cuts out spudders spits coughs anything and everything but run right. Engine shakes back and forth while it does this. This thing has a lot more power than what its showing. Can't drive it any where past 20-25 mph. Has great low end torque but high end is so lame its embarrassing. I have a wedding in 12 days and I gotta get this thing running right. Anyone have anything? ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Replies:
Posted By: Flint23
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:36am
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wild guess...vacuum leak or timing off a bit.. how's the compression now? ------------- been there done that, not doing it again... |
Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:46am
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Main jet in the carburetor is plugged. Or the fuel line in plugged so its starving for fuel. I've seen a tractor engine that would only idle for a minute then shut down and wouldn't run faster because the hidden screen in the fuel inlet adapter fitting was clogged with varnish. Wouldn't pass 60 psi air (all the pressure that was in my portable tank that day) and I've seen fuel lines clogged with varnish to give the same effect. And it could be the intake manifold gasket rotted. Ignition timing could be stuck at idle, though that usually doesn't show up as rough running, retarded timing when it needs it to be advanced, just makes it low on power but very smooth. Gerald J. |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:31am
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Checked timing and cleaned carb twice ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:36am
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Played with the timing. Advanced in manually. No change. Compression is around 100 on all cylinders. Manifold gasket is new. ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: Mike_426
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:07am
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Is there a pcv valve under the valve cover? Had a similar problem on an old dump truck, was bad causing serious vacuum problem, good luck ------------- G, 200, 8050 mfd, D17, 195 chainsaw, c-wide front |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:26am
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There is a vent that comes out of one of the valve covers. This is a flat head engine. ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:38am
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A 1949 would not have PCV, would be a road draft tube. Two possibilities that I would check. Condensor (yes, I know you changed it, but they can be bad out of the box); and ignition coil. Another might be restriction in exhaust. For a more arcane reason, could the engine be moving enough in its mounts to lose its electrical ground or power connection?
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Posted By: AllisUpstate
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:45am
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AJ, I'd still go with fuel, even though you cleaned the carbs twice. There might still be a bit of rust or blockage in one of the jet passageways, or even further back. The fuel pump might have a partially ruptured diaphragm, giving it enough to idle on but not run. Like others have said, on the electrical side, about the only thing remaining could be a seized up advance mechanism, but a timing light would reveal that fairly quickly. Whatever you find out, please let everyone know. |
Posted By: Steve in NJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:02am
Something thats been sitting that long might have a mouse nest in the muffler or exhaust pipe somewhere and is blocking the exhaust from exiting at higher throttle. Had that happen years ago to a customer that had a 64 Chevy Nova. Sat for many years in a little ole lady's garage. He got it running, but it wouldn't go over a certain rpm. The engine would flatten out. (6 cylinder) Brought it to me to figure out. I found a mouse condo in the exhaust system. What tipped me off was the burnt seat cushion particals at the tailpipe! It also had this funny smell to it while it was running. It definately did not have a cat converter on it thats fir' sure!  Hmmmmm...... Check the exhaust system. 
mailto:Steve@B&B" rel="nofollow - Steve@B&B
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Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:07am
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The car don't have an actual exhaust right now. It's about 3'of pipe right now. Exhaust was falling off. ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:12am
Maybe you should just sell it to me and I can put that engine in my 48 M5 pickup
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 8:01am
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I can't do that. If I did I wouldn't be getting married then. Besides you wouldn't want to pay the price she would want. ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: mtanut
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 9:30am
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I would try gravity feeding gas to it and see how it runs. There is a possibility that the cam is wore enough that it isn't pumping enough gas. Other thing is check the condenser as mentioned and also pull the distributor and check to see if there is slop in the shaft. Good luck.
------------- I have a 185 Allis, 6060 Allis, Model K gleaner, SMTA ferg 35, ferg 20 (paps first tractor, Allis B (wife's)John Deere 240 skid loader and a bunch of the usual farm stuff. |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 9:35am
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Tried the gravity with the fuel. Took distributer out and went through it. Condenser was replaced ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:00am
| Rebuilt the carb? Sometimes a gasket can be upside down and block a critical orifice. |
Posted By: Bob in Md.
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:08am
| Hi fuel pump is bad |
Posted By: Karl in MD
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:31am
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Did you change the polarity of the ignition system? It would have been positive ground, and if you switched the polarity of the battery to negative ground, it will make the spark so weak that it won't do much more than idle. Don't ask me how I know this or how many hours it took to figure it out. ------------- A man's got to know his limitations. '51 WD, Roto-Baler,, A-C rake, '44 C, '42 B |
Posted By: Dave Richards (WV)
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:06am
| Steve, is that Cat converter used to eliminate the mice????? |
Posted By: Dick L
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:07am
| That was the same flat head engine that I used in the race car I bulit in 1960. I had that thing apart so many times. Seemed about every other week I pulled the engine. Tried a couple of different crankshafts. I had the carburetor apart several times and for the life of me I cannot remember if it had an accelerator pump. Seems it should have. Snappy little flat head. |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:21am
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Karl, it does have a "weak" spark at the points but how would than effect the way it runs at higher rpms? ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:23am
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I have a new distributer advance diaphragm being over nighted in for tomorrow for it to try that at least. ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: Brian Jasper co. Ia
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 1:32pm
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Have you actually checked fuel pressure? The way you describe it makes me think lack of fuel. Just for grins and giggles fab up a separate fuel tank and electric fuel pump and see what happens. When you looked at the spark, what is it putting out to the plug? There will always be a tiny bit of arcing at the points. One more thing to check is the wire to the points from the coil inside the dizzy. I have seen that wire break from being flexed by the vacuum advance. ------------- "Any man who thinks he can be happy and prosperous by letting the government take care of him better take a closer look at the American Indian." Henry Ford |
Posted By: Karl in MD
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 3:27pm
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If the spark is weak when you work the points manually, it's not going to be strong enough to fire the plugs under compression. at idle, a weak spark is okay, because the engine is not having to work, but when it's under more load, the plugs will misfire. Check your polarity. Is the system still 6 volt? is it still positive ground? If it's been switched to negative ground, you need to switch the wires on the coil, otherwise, you're trying to feed current to the points through the entire car frame, and fire the plugs from the side electrode. It sounds weird, but an old mechanic showed me, and it does make a difference. ------------- A man's got to know his limitations. '51 WD, Roto-Baler,, A-C rake, '44 C, '42 B |
Posted By: Duey (IA)
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 4:01pm
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If the battery is grounded to the frame, you need a ground strap from the engine to the frame so the spark can complete the circuit. ------------- Fight Organized Crime, Do not re-elect them! |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 4:30pm
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Well the positive side of the battery goes to the engine. Negative goes to the starter. So what does that mean? ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: jlogli
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 4:41pm
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Not enough back pressure with exhaust pipe? ------------- 1945 WC on full steel, WD wide front, WD45 power steering, 1966 D-17IVfactory 3 point.1967 D-17IV SC. 1973 rotobaler white top. orange top roto, model 90 combine,82S, four bottom plow.302 baler. |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:53pm
| If the cables are like you say, it is correctly postive grounded. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:54pm
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If the positive side of the battery is hooked directly to the engine block, you should be fine. Then check the coil and see if the + side of it goes to the distributor. It should. Now if you don't have enough spark to jump 1/4 inch gap (at the plug) and still make a bright blue spark, you need to fix whatever is causing the weak spark. If you have replaced the condenser, it could still be the problem. New ones now days are pretty junky. You might have a problem with the coil. Make SURE it's grounded good to the block. Might be worth a try to replace that too, with the proper coil for whatever voltage you are running. Now, a new gas line, fuel pump and rebuilt carb won't do much good if you have blockage in the tank itself. Could be a bad gas cap not venting or you might have some crud in the tank that limits the amount of fuel getting to the carb. ------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Thad in AR.
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:32pm
| 100 isn't good compression. Are you sure the other valves aren't sticking? |
Posted By: TramwayGuy
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:34pm
| 100 seems to me about right for a flathead engine. |
Posted By: CAdon
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 8:51pm
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one more vote for the coil. and unreliable condensers. would send you a better built one from that era but,, uhh,, i need it. can you locate one? dunno why it's so hard to find a newer one that works, but it is. btw steve at b&b seems to be a good go to guy for anything electrical. ------------- 52 CA, 41 B and a little B1 oh, yeah... and an 8N ford snuck in there, too. |
Posted By: Ed (Ont)
Date Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 8:56pm
| 100 lbs of compression sounds good. Those were not hi comp engines. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 12:10am
| I know you said you replaced the fuel line, and I'm assuming you mean from fuel pump to carb, but did you replace the line from the tank to the fuel pump?? I had a similar problem with a '35 Chev pickup and the fuel line was rusted real thin behind the battery box and it was partially flattened. I could get the old truck up to about 15 MPH and that was it. I replaced the whole fuel line and that fixed it. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 12:14am
Arcing across the points means that either the condenser is bad, or the coil has an internal short. It would affect how it runs at higher RPMs, because the arcing effectively means your ignition coil's secondary field is not collapsing as quickly as it SHOULD be. The side-effect that you'd get, is like someone grabbing the distributor and twisting it about 40 degrees... and then flipping the ignition switch on and off quickly... ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
AJ wrote:Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:46am
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Found it!!!! The new points I bought was manufactured without the spring on it causing the points to "float" at high rpms. If I could post pics I would show everyone a pic of it. Amazing something so small can cause so much stress. I have 11 days to get her back together and finished up before the wedding. (No pressure). Thanks for everyone's help, it means a lot to my fiancee and I. I know it isn't what we normally talk about on here it just this form has helped me with so many other issues on my tractors I figured what the hell, why not? So, thank you everyone. ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:49am
| Check the points to see that they open and close without any bind and there should be a healthy resistance to opening them. More than one mechanic has scratched his head over same problem with the old style NAPA Echlin points that had both a spring and copper strap. The actual spring could fall out leaving just the copper strap. Engine would idle all day but not run over 1000 or so RPMs. A check with a timing light will show if this (or other ignition problem) is causing your problems. |
Posted By: DaveKamp
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 6:57am
Hee hee... tough world when the contingency of a marriage contract revolves around the ressurection of a '49 Studebaker Champion... Does she have a bass boat and hunting dog?  What I didn't mention, and perhaps you already know... the Studebaker Champion is 6v positive ground... But there's a chance that someone converted it to 8v, perhaps even reversed the polarity at some point. From 6v to 8v was frequently only a screwdriver's twist of the voltage regulator screw and a tweak of the generator brush position... polarity reversal wasn't much more than swapping cables, flashing the generator/regulator, and replacing the radio (if it had one). Most guys just ran the 6v bulbs, and replaced 'em more often. If you're using a 12v battery on either a 6v or 8v system, you may wind up with an overheating ignition coil, so beware! ------------- Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest. |
Posted By: Michael (WI)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 7:42am
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AJ, I know the feeling of pressure trying to get a car done for a wedding, and it wasn't even mine. My brother and I fixed up 55' Studebaker Commander for my good friend's wedding. It was his future wife's Grandpa's car and it was a hush hush secret. Ultimately I did not get the car running until the morning of the rehearsal. The father of the director of the Studebaker museum just happens to live here in Manitowoc and just happened to have an extra rebuilt fuel pump sitting on the shelf. Then I had to quick load it and drive three hours across the state and be a few minutes late for the rehearsal but I couldn't explain to the bride to be until the next day why I was late. Below is a picture of them at my wedding.  |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 7:49am
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Very nice Michael. Hope ours turns out well. Sucks getting down to the wire and having to pull everything together at once. Lol ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: Butch(OH)
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 7:57am
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Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 28 Aug 2012 at 10:04am
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No worries ------------- Can't fix stupid |
Posted By: Duey (IA)
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 10:42am
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That would be a complete circuit. Ground strap would be required for headlights or anything grounded to the body as the drive train is mounted in rubber (motor mounts,spring shackles, shocks, etc.) ------------- Fight Organized Crime, Do not re-elect them! |
Posted By: Bolivar Boy
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 12:13pm
| when you adjusted the timing and nothing happened i suspect that was the red flag. im guessing the bearing for the distb shaft or the shaft end gear that runs off the cam is toast causing the no change in advancement or retard to the distributor and the rough run at anything higher than idle rpm. mark 0 tdc and rotate distb while running with timing light on the 0 tdc mark and observe. if the distb shaft has lateral movement then the points cannot open and close at precise fire time causing distortion at high rpm. |
Posted By: AJ
Date Posted: 29 Aug 2012 at 12:47pm
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I knew it was something simple but just couldn't find the source. Gotta thank the Chinese for their exceptional craftsmenship. ------------- Can't fix stupid |