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Hot engine won't start? |
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Topic: Hot engine won't start?Posted: 20 Sep 2025 at 8:26am |
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Yes, but as indicated, was only running slightly over 1,000 engine RPM's. Documentation that came with new alternator says it is set to 14.2 volts charging when operating at "normal" speed. I'm guessing that will be around 2,000 RPM's plus. So far, I've not done more than idle as since it all went back together, has been running hot. I'm thinking thermostat may now be stuck closed having sat dry for past 2 months or so. Either than or water pump went bad just sitting. Have another new issue with an exhaust manifold that has showed up. Need to get that sorted too...........then can take it out on the road for a joy ride to see what happens.
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Les Kerf
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Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 1641 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 2025 at 8:09am |
Was this photo taken while running the new alternator? I like to check the voltage with my Fluke 88 meter to verify the calibration of the dash gauge; a full 14 Volts makes me happy
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 2025 at 7:29am |
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As for rest of rehab, once engine is running again with no issues, plan it is to drive it to local welding/fabrication shop for a few welding projects, then start working on getting it painted. Not the full deal, but the visible sheet metal. 50 to 60 years of sitting outside in the weather takes it's toll.
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 20 Sep 2025 at 7:25am |
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When this thing showed up on my doorstep, don't think any gauges were working (along with a lot of other stuff). One of first things I did to start rehab was to install full set of new gauges. Could not stand operating blind.
Might work OK for a lawnmower, but not a big piece of equipment like
this. Hardest part was to find a tachometer.....with hour meter. Those
are not cheap!! All gauges are Auto Meter.......which offers good quality gauges for automotive and marine use. Watching the volt meter work was how I concluded changes had to be made. ![]() |
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Les Kerf
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Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 1641 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 2025 at 9:09pm |
It will be just fine. Install a voltmeter if you are concerned (a voltmeter tells you far more than does an ammeter).
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iowallis
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Joined: 04 Jun 2017 Location: North Iowa Points: 387 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 2025 at 3:17pm |
And make things simple?? I have done repair work on late 1970s to late 1980s vehicles that are mish-mash of metric and SAE bolts/nuts. There was one manufacture (Chevy?) that 2 out of the 3 starter bolts were metric and the other SAE. Then the Ford 5.4 oil filter, supposedly the engines built in Windsor Canada has SAE threads on the filter and the engine built in Romeo MI (USA) has metric threads. Sound like you are making much progress on this project, might as well go all the way and restore it to its original, as sold when new, glory.
Edited by iowallis - 19 Sep 2025 at 3:18pm |
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 90897 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 2025 at 1:09pm |
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alternator output is not linear.. Generator output is relative to SPEED... Alternator might take some RPM to kick in, but after that the output is a curve.. running half speed might get you 75% output..( 1200 engine rpm, 2500 rpm alternator).. they are all a little different, but the main advantage of an alternator is good amp output at lower rpm as compared to a generator. .... once an alternator goes above 3000 rpm the output starts to go flat...
Edited by steve(ill) - 19 Sep 2025 at 1:16pm |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 2025 at 10:29am |
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Good call.....it may be sitting 1/8" or so proud, so maybe 2 3/4" plus effective diameter of pulley. The one from Brillman better than that, and 1/2" to boot. If I can figure out what "special tools" are needed to make the swap. No.....do not have a shaft RPM. Just tach on the engine. But do have an electric meter, so may be able to measure voltages and amps when running to see what I got.
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 5279 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 2025 at 10:08am |
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Be aware that if the belts are not down in the groove where the top of the belt is flush with the pully, you are effectively running a larger diameter pulley. Measure what you get for the OD of the belts around you alternator pulley.
Do you have a mechanical tachometer that you can actually measure the alternator RPM ?
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 2025 at 8:58am |
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Just got off phone with Powermaster tech support. Long story short, belts as now configured are good to go. As per those guys, they don't have a 1/2" groove pulley for this alternator. Running high on those grooves at low speed not going to hurt anything. Pulley has OD of 2.65", so is faster than what I can replace it with, which BTW, the pulley is held on by some strange screw setup......maybe along the lines of a tamper proof setup. Not the nut and torque wrench change over some show to use. Best leave it alone. Alternator kicks in at around 1,800 RPM alternator shaft speed, and comes up to rated speed at around 2,400 RPM, which at my fast idle speed ** will be around 2,400 RPM. Most transit and field work way above that, so should be OK. ** - Fast idle needed when unloading at the barn. Needed to turn the hydraulic pump to get drag chains moving, and is also needed to keep the radiator fan (runs on hydraulic motor) spinning fast to keep cooling system working. Those all speed up and slow down with engine speed. 1,000 RPM is about right.
Edited by modirt - 19 Sep 2025 at 9:07am |
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 19 Sep 2025 at 7:51am |
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That is a really good resource I wasn't aware of. This one might work........ That assumes 17mm is same as 0.625 diameter shaft on alternator. The math isn't exact, but close. Frustrating that they have to mix apples and oranges (SAE and metric) to to make it more confusing. Past that........the plot thickens........meaning my education on all this continues. This from Powermaster (whose material is both excellent and abysmal)......... Edit: Measured and it's 6.25" / 2.65 = 2.358 (better than I feared, but still not good) I'll have to measure, but my guess is OD of big pulley is no more than 5 inches.....turning a pulley of about 2 3/4"......so ratio is not much more than 2:1. At engine RPM of 1,000 fast idle speed, even this high amp alternator is not putting out much juice. Even in use in the field, engine rarely exceeds 2,000 RPM's. Documentation that came with alternator shows it tested to 65 amps at idle speed, but that was with 3:1 ratio. At my idle speed, may not be doing much at all. So a lot of this then goes to operation. If working at night and are moving from field to barn.......and back........best let the engine rev......(do not shift up)......to get RPM's to 2,500 or more for as long as you can. Alternator really isn't doing much unless you do. All part of the puzzle.
Edited by modirt - 19 Sep 2025 at 8:48am |
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 5279 |
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Posted: 18 Sep 2025 at 7:17pm |
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The Brillman Co. offer a wide assortment of different pulleys for alternators. There one that I use often that will work for B & C belts that is a small OD to spin the alternator faster at slower engine speeds.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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modirt
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Posted: 18 Sep 2025 at 7:17pm |
As near as I can tell, someone put a sleeve on the steer cylinder shaft as a hard stop to prevent it from going any further. I cannot understand why.......unless cylinder is also mismatched and seal in the middle is not centered. Have hit a few new snags, but once all that is sorted, plan is to run it about 15 miles to same welding / fabrication shop that had the PTO crosses and they are going to do some welding on it for me. They also work on hydraulics, so will pull cylinder off to have a look. On the old alternator had a guy look at it and not only was all else wrong, but they wired it wrong. They got a lot wrong with that one. That and several other fixes.....non fixes......and patch it up to keep going. I have left all the baling wire they had hanging on it. Not sure if that was from some busted bales, or busted bales for the baling wire to make fixes with. To date, have found no chewing gum.
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 18 Sep 2025 at 7:03pm |
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The belt is riding high on the 3/8" pulleys on the alternator. The other two.....water pump and lower crank pulley's are 1/2". The ride flush on those two. So not matched. Lessor of two evils seemed to be to let belts ride high on alternator. The older AC Delco was done the same way and belts didn't cause the problems. At worst, belts may wear faster. Option B would be to try to replace pulleys on alternator. Instructions that came with it had some dire warnings about that. So for now, have left it as is.
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DiyDave
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 55301 |
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Posted: 18 Sep 2025 at 3:56pm |
X2 on the high riding belt. Looks like a B belt in an A pulley...
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Source: Babylon Bee. Sponsored by BRAWNDO, its got what you need!
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TedN
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Joined: 30 Apr 2025 Location: Central WA Points: 172 |
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Posted: 18 Sep 2025 at 10:31am |
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That looks much better than it did in your youtube video. Did you get your steering figured out, or decide that's another project for another day?
Whoever did the tension bracket to the frame setup that it had probably came to the same stuck bolt that you did and tried to cut corners. It isn't always easy to do a job properly, but it is a good feeling to know it is right when you are done. Ted |
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190XTD seriesIII, 190XTD seriesI, maroon belly 7000, 190XTD series??? project(or maybe parts)
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Lars(wi)
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Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Permian Basin Points: 8406 |
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Posted: 18 Sep 2025 at 9:40am |
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Keep on eye on that alternator, the belt appears to ‘riding high’, the pulley may be too narrow. The top of the belt should be level with the top of the pulley grove.
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Les Kerf
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Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 1641 |
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Posted: 17 Sep 2025 at 5:13pm |
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Thank you for the excellent documentation and follow-up
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 17 Sep 2025 at 4:35pm |
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Bolt circled in green was the culprit that started all the trouble. It runs thru tensioning bracket, mounting bracket, cast iron water pump, aluminum timing cover, then into threads in cast block, but also terminates with end exposed to engine coolant. Bolt circled in red ends in a blind pocket in the engine block. It is the main support for the alternator. When tightening belts, tendency may be to loosen the problem child bolt too, but if you do, that would break the seal on the thread sealant......maybe now a leak. One just has to remember to never, ever touch that bolt. The bolt in red and tightning screw on the alternator......and nothing else. ![]() |
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modirt
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Posted: 17 Sep 2025 at 3:14pm |
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Together again........ ![]() Now sporing a new 90 amp one wire Powermaster Alternator from Summit Racing. Looks to be charging! ![]() Once that bolt came out, it was clear sailing. Having said that, this turned into bigger project than I expected. In no particular order....... 1. Upgraded battery cables to #4....upgrade charging wire to #6.....hot and ground. 2. Installed new alternator, which required specific alternator brackets to match old cast iron water pump. Those took some looking to find. Also....now running on two new fan belts. 3. New double roller timing chain and timing chain cover. Found and installed an oil slinger on crankshaft behind the big pulley. It was missing the slinger when I pulled it apart. 4. Pulled oil pan to clean out the sludge. So all new gaskets, front and back. 5. Installed new dip stick tupe into the block (that wasn't easy). As near as I can tell, it's half inch or so longer than the old, and came with the extra long dip stick needed for this jumbo sized oil pan. So using the shorter dip stick tube that was on the engine, I may have been running half a quart to quart low all along. That's not good. 5. Pulled and rotated distributor to get it in synch with timing marks.....then swapped out all the plug wires to match correct firing order. (Distributor had been installed backwards, so instead of fixing it, they swapped plug wires to match). 6. Found a harmonic balancer to get crankshaft to Top Dead Center for #1 cylinder, then installed the big 4 pulley replacement, and put timing marks on it (there were none). All that thru the timing off, but she did start....but ran ruff. Trial and error got her running great........needs to be fine tuned with timing light or vacuum gauge. 7. New crosses for U-joint that runs hydraulics. 8. Swapped engine temp sensor from water pump to correct position on top of engine block, so reads correctly. 9. Hard to tell from photos, but also painted all those parts. Paint job marred by all the sealant and anti-seize smeared all over everything. 10. Removed old insulation around fuel line from pump to carb. Replaced it with an aluminum / glass heat shield fabric tube. Old insulation was burnt off where it ran too close to the exhaust manifolds, so bent it a bit to give it some space. That may have been hot enough to have caused it to vapor lock and not start when hot. The water pump and timing gear bolts all new Grade 8. If they ended in the engine block in coolant, they got thread sealer, plus anti-seize on the shaft of the bolt. Bolts in oil were short, they got thread sealant. Bolts in dead ends in the block all got anti-seize. next guy won't have as much trouble pulling it apart as I did. Anyway, as noted, cranked it a bit and she started........then once I got the timing right, she ran good. I'd say she purred, but with a pair of cherry bomb glass packs for mufflers, that is more of a deep throated rumble. Long hard road and painful lessons learned, but learned a lot and added to my tool stash.........by a lot. Hope the juice I get was worth the squeeze!
Edited by modirt - 17 Sep 2025 at 4:15pm |
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PaulB
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Rocky Ridge Md Points: 5279 |
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Posted: 22 Aug 2025 at 7:23pm |
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If you are looking for a replacement 318 TRUCK engine, you need to look at where the data codes are STAMPED into the block, if you are reading numbers casted on the side of the block, they are irrelevant. You want to find a 318-3 engine, this will have the steel crankshaft. Back in 1974 we special ordered a new D500 that had a 318 in it. with a 5 speed and 6.8:1 rear, it would haul anything a pull a loaded trailer to boot. Of course it would only do 62 MPH against the governor under the 2BBL but back then there was a national 55MPH speed limit.
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If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere.
Real pullers don't have speed limits. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 22 Aug 2025 at 5:32pm |
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Found a solution for the PTO U joints. There is a welding /
fabrication shop about 20 miles from here in middle of nowhere.
Bearings, U joints, hydraulics and related. If they don't have it, you
don't need it. Total cost........$30 installed. ![]() |
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 13 Aug 2025 at 7:55pm |
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stainless bolt... plenty of pipe dope and thread tape to seal the coolant.. if you realy want to get fance, drill out the housing hole and put in a brass bushing.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Les Kerf
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Joined: 08 May 2020 Location: Idaho Points: 1641 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2025 at 7:31pm |
Is it practical to install a custom stud rather than a bolt to allow future maintenance?
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modirt
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Joined: 18 Jul 2018 Location: Missouri Points: 9467 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2025 at 3:52pm |
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Have given thought all manner of fixes.......everything from a hard plastic bolt.....some sort of ceramic coating, etc. Cheap and easy might be to butter it up with Anti-Seize before installing. Once installed, this one bolt would be the only one of several that would ever have to turn. It is one of three that is used to hold alternator bracket on, but this one also does double duty, being lower anchor point for the arm used to adjust fan belt tension on alternator. Anytime the fan is adjusted, or to replace the belt, that bolt has to turn. Somewhere along the line somebody tried and broke it. And again, it does extend into the block where end is exposed to coolant. Some design engineer screwed the pooch on this one.
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plummerscarin
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Posted: 13 Aug 2025 at 12:43pm |
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Your issue was same as one shown in video link you posted. Corrosion of dissimilar metals in the cover itself. The flaw in design is not addressing the problem before the corrosion begins. Some sort of anti seize or bushing would be in order.
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modirt
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Posted: 13 Aug 2025 at 11:44am |
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Cover is off (and it wasn't easy) and broken bolt is finally out. Had to
hack up the cover and once inside was very plain to see, corrosion to
the bolt was holding it on. No amount of heat or soaking was going to
free it up. Had to go postal on it. Once cover was off, the bolt backed
out easy with vice grips. Once inside, looks
to me like timing chain is suspect. Good amount of slack in it. If going
to replace, no time like the present. ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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tadams(OH)
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Posted: 12 Aug 2025 at 2:55pm |
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Try putting some heat on the area that the bolt is in
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modirt
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Posted: 12 Aug 2025 at 7:31am |
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Widely believed the Deweze version (this one) left factory with engine, tranny, front and rear axles same as Dodge D600. The rest was fabricated and grafted on. Spoke to the young man I bought this from and he replaced the original factory engine with a used 318 engine sourced from a salvage yard. He had no idea what it came out of. It has an odd casting number.........xxxxxx-318-16. The 16 part is where numbers vary depending on use. Nobody seems to know what a 318-16 was intended for. Aside from cars and trucks, we know they were used in a whole slew of military vehicles, RV's, boats, irrigation pumps, Oliver combines and who knows what else. Some floating around were just spare crate engines, which is what this one may have been. The MOPAR guys gas on about cams, headers, carbs, etc., with most of them interested in high RPM horsepower and if it will hold together above 6,000 RPM long enough to smoke the tires off. At other end of the spectrum would have been that Dodge D600 truck. High torque at low RPM's not intended for high road speed. (Not a muscle car). Carb, headers, cam shaft all optimized for that use. That would be ideal for this rig, but not sure how close it matches......if at all. It does have same NP 540 transmission, but only single speed rear axle. So the geared way down, high torque setup. If i was to go on a hunt to replace engine, I'd be looking for a donor from some form of Dodge D600 truck. Actually have a line on one in form of an old firetruck, which is sitting in a salvage yard. Some of these D600 trucks were retired with less than 30,000 actual miles.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 11 Aug 2025 at 9:17pm |
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For what it's worth... Chrysler, like Ford and GM, had manufacturing lines specific for 'industrial' engines.... so if you assume an engine to be same as automotive/truck, there's a fair chance you'll be wrong. My Clark IT-60 has a 225 slant six. While it looks just like what'd be in as Plymouth Volare, Chrysler LeBaron, or Dodge Aspen... or an A or D-series truck or van... But it's different. About 80% of the parts are different. Different crank, different intake, different pan, different water pump...
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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