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Grandfathers CA
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Points: 88307 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2024 at 8:16am
This is an old list i used when i rebuilt my "B" ... should be the same.. I got the numbers off the bearings themselves..

Transmission & Differential:
Differential Carrier Seal - CR #11343, National #410163R
Differential Carrier/Bull Pinion Speedi-Sleeve - CR #99125
Differential Carrier Cup - Timken #25520
Differential Carrier Cone - Timken #25580
Input Shaft Cup - Timken #15250
Input Shaft Cone - Timken #15120
Input Shaft Seal - CR #11800, National #450162 (471765)
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Jun 2024 at 5:49am
I want to replace the bearing race in the carrier from the farm since it has a few pits.  I am not sure if I can change out the one in the worn differential carrier with the farm carrier without damage.  I also have not yet found a new bearing race online yet

Thoughts exchanging or a place to buy an new differential bearing race/cup for the carrier


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Edited by CA13414 - 19 Jun 2024 at 5:50am
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Jun 2024 at 8:19pm
A bit more done today.  Took apart the left wheel and seperated the rim and hub.  Will take this to the shop to take off the tire.  Will plan to sand blast these in the next weeks. Then paint the rims black and the hubs orange. Then have the new rear tires mounted.



Used a fiber optic camera from Amazon to look and see where the oil was leaking from the left final axil.  Camera worked awesome from my iPhone and was only about $18 after the 30% discount.  


While a bit dark, despite the LED lights, was easy to see the leak on the left differential seal.  

Here are a few images.  Clearly the seal is leaking and not between the surface of the carrier and differential.  I have to think this is where the carrier was worn and the seal did not have good seat and seal. Using JB Weld would work well here as previously noted.




You see as an example there is no leakage between the carrier and differential case.


Once we have the double lip seal, we will take this apart and reassemble with the new seal and the carrier we picked up from the farm this past weekend.  


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Edited by CA13414 - 18 Jun 2024 at 8:29pm
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Jun 2024 at 10:24am
Was back at the farm this weekend with the family and my brothers, sister and I grabbed a few other pieces.  Mostly interested in the differential carrier.  Using the John Deere tractor loader and a chain, Milwaukee impact, we separated the final drive shaft and removed the carrier.  Plan to use this in place of the one that is worn as previously post. 

Just need to clean it up and exchange the bearing race.









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Edited by CA13414 - 16 Jun 2024 at 8:38pm
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jun 2024 at 8:53pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

I dont have a specific seal that is double lip.. Just know they make them.. I had a 75 year old "B" that had groove cut in the shaft and always dripped.. I got the ID and OD and bought a seal that was DOUBLE LIP and  probably 1/8 inch THICKER than original and installed that..



Thanks Steve!

I just ordered a double lip seal that "should fit!" With PermaTex and this seal, we should be in good condition!!!

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Edited by CA13414 - 13 Jun 2024 at 9:43pm
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2024 at 7:10pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

the gasket is only 1/16 inch thick so it probably will not compress much.. But if your using 3-4 of them between all the shims, the  "compression" can add up.. I still like the permatex idea better.. Compress once and your done... plus , your only putting it on 2 thousandths thick..
 

PermaTex it is.  Thanks again for all the insight!!!

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Edited by CA13414 - 12 Jun 2024 at 7:11pm
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the gasket is only 1/16 inch thick so it probably will not compress much.. But if your using 3-4 of them between all the shims, the  "compression" can add up.. I still like the permatex idea better.. Compress once and your done... plus , your only putting it on 2 thousandths thick..
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Jun 2024 at 8:17am
What do you think about something like this. I will get my calipers and measure the shims. If it’s approximately 1/64 would you replace the shims with this gasket?

https://www.mcmaster.com/product/9402K21
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2024 at 10:07pm
That makes sense.  If it is too thick, we run the risk of a loose bearing which will not be good. With this, i think a good layer of PermaTex on all the surfaces will do the trick.  

Regarding the seal, a great idea.  i will look and see if I can find one.  It seams like this is leaking carrier. I will drain the oil before we remove and once removed see if I can tell it is "running" or "leaking" from the seal or the carrier.

Thanks for all in insight Steve...... Much appreciated!!
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Points: 88307 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2024 at 9:55pm
I dont have a specific seal that is double lip.. Just know they make them.. I had a 75 year old "B" that had groove cut in the shaft and always dripped.. I got the ID and OD and bought a seal that was DOUBLE LIP and  probably 1/8 inch THICKER than original and installed that..




Edited by steve(ill) - 11 Jun 2024 at 9:58pm
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as long as the gasket is "non compressable" or is very thin, that will work... I have seen paper gaskets used between the shims on a couple tractors i have taken apart.. I assume that was factory ??  ...The idea of SHIMS is to get a good "dimension"... anything that is compressable or changes thickness would not be a good idea.
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Joined: 25 Feb 2024
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2024 at 9:27pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Permatex is normally good stuff... ALso check the shaft.. have seen small GROOVES cut by the seal after 50 years of service... Sometimes a double lip seal can be purchased to fix problem areas.
 


What do you thing about taking out the shims and putting a thin gasket in it place to seal the carrier?

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Edited by CA13414 - 11 Jun 2024 at 9:27pm
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2024 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Permatex is normally good stuff... ALso check the shaft.. have seen small GROOVES cut by the seal after 50 years of service... Sometimes a double lip seal can be purchased to fix problem areas.
 

That is awesome.  Like the double lip seal as a solution... creative solution!!!!  Don't think I have seen those on DJs or Yesterdays sell those?  If not, where?

I will make sure I get an even layer of PermaTex, yet not too much.

Thanks again!!!
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Edited by CA13414 - 11 Jun 2024 at 9:21pm
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Points: 88307 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2024 at 9:15pm
Permatex is normally good stuff... ALso check the shaft.. have seen small GROOVES cut by the seal after 50 years of service... Sometimes a double lip seal can be purchased to fix problem areas.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2024 at 8:37pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

as long as the bearing race is snug in the hole, and the seal is covered all the way around, i dont see a problem.. You could stuff a little RTV or JB Weld in the "cavity" if you want to seal around the Seal.
 

Thank you,

The race is snug and the seal was covered all the way around.  We will take it back off and then make sure we have enough sealant on the shims and carrier.  Would you use something other than PermaTex?

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Edited by CA13414 - 11 Jun 2024 at 8:37pm
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as long as the bearing race is snug in the hole, and the seal is covered all the way around, i dont see a problem.. You could stuff a little RTV or JB Weld in the "cavity" if you want to seal around the Seal.

Edited by steve(ill) - 11 Jun 2024 at 8:24pm
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Points: 377 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jun 2024 at 7:47pm
However, after filling the differential Sunday with oil, the left side is leaking. Also the pulley shaft seal is leaking.  Is not bad but still leaking and will replace that seal.  

Regarding the left inner drive shaft seal, I really think this is leaking at the at the differential carrier and the shims.  Reading the service manual they talk about adding sealer on the shims to prevent leaking.  I think I did not get enough of the PermaTex.

I did want to ask the question to the group about the left "Differential Carrier" that I posted Sunday.  As mentioned earlier, this is only to hold the bearing race and seal, thus I don't think this wear with the new seal is the issue but the carrier.

Thoughts?



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Edited by CA13414 - 11 Jun 2024 at 8:35pm
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A bit more achieved tonight.  Used the drill and wire brush, and brake cleaner once again to clean up the rear final drive and etc a bit more.  Pretty much cleaned up everything except the underside of the final drive pans and the quick connect.  Will do that later when I am ready to crawl under and not in good cloths!!!

Here is the first coat of black paint on the hubs which will be black just like the front wheels.  Then we are planning to paint the rear wheel with pin body, guide rail body and pin orange.  The rim will be black.


Took the Milwaulkee Sawzall and yep cut off the tire. Was the best part of the day!!


Here is the rim. It did take a bit to pry off the remaining tire and bead off.  But did get it done with a couple of pry bars!!  Now to either wire brush the heck out of the rim or sand blast.  Then paint black.


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Edited by CA13414 - 11 Jun 2024 at 7:39pm
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Once we put in both left and right seals, we put it all together.  Used a "light" layer of PermaTex to ensure we had a good seal when bolting the left and right seal and bearing race housings to the differential. The left side that was difficult to remove did go back together quite easy after removing the burs.  Overall it took about 5 hours.

Put together the right side as below.... with the hand clutch release.... and simply to keep the "3 balls" of the clutch together. Then slid the final drive shaft into the release clutch.  Did have to futz with the woodruff key and the brake drum shaft which was OK.




When it was all said and done here it is back together.  Have two jack stands and two jacks (added the left on after this picture).  Just needed to make sure it does not come off the jack stands. 




We then rinsed/washed out with about a half a gallon of hydraulic/trans oil, since the drained oil seamed like it was cloudy.  Then put in the drain plug with a new seal and filled with new hydrolic/trans oil.  Will make sure we do not have any leaks. I plan to run this for a short bit then change out the oil again.....  need to drop the pans to the final drive gears and change the oil yet.

Then the rear tires and painting!! As long as there are no leaks!!!


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Edited by CA13414 - 10 Jun 2024 at 8:17am
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Here is the left side!!  Like WTF it is a bird nest!!



This is the seal that has been leaking which is obvious with the oil soaked birds nest above!!


More seriously, their clearly as been some wear on the seal and bearing cone housing in prior years.  Makes me think the differential cone bearing went out which resulted in this wear.  As well, I didn't take pictures (...damn) but the left shaft was hard to remove.  When we removed it had "chunks of fused metal" on the final drive shaft which you would expect to see with metal on metal wear.  Thus, we took off these ridges and cleaned them up with emory cloth. 

Importantly the race and cone bearing looked good, thus, seams like we are really are dealing with old damage.  To me that is the only way we could wear the seal housing shown above and that this is not recent but old (i.e. he current seal is not worn like the seal housing.  

Happy to know what other think about this wear and if there are any concerns.
 


Knowing that this is only to hold the new seal and the bearing race in place which is on the other side, we reinstalled both left and right seals and reassembled.  



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Edited by CA13414 - 10 Jun 2024 at 8:11am
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With an engine lift and a few chains we set up to take off the right final drive.



Here is the grease and dirt filled right final drive tube. Took a bit of time to clean


Yep had to catch the three 1/2" bearings for the hand clutch.


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Edited by CA13414 - 09 Jun 2024 at 8:01pm
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Was a good day.  Wanted to take apart left and right final drive and replace the final drive inner seals and clean up the final drive tubes.

Here is the left side up on a jack stand!


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Edited by CA13414 - 09 Jun 2024 at 5:17pm
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Originally posted by AWD45D15 AWD45D15 wrote:

I have a CA that needs split...think connection on drive shaft at transmission broken somewhere.  I used it for years with woods belly mower.  It mowed really well.  It has been sitting for 4 or 5 years, and I have too many other projects (and a new zero turn mower),  so I would like to sell it.  I have not advertised it yet but I would like $1,200 for tractor and mower as is.  Many great parts, including sheet metal, wheels and tires.  Engine ran well, but used some oil.  Are you interested in more parts for your project?
Whereabouts are you in Iowa? I might be interested.
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Originally posted by CA13414 CA13414 wrote:

Thank you and appreciate the message.  It makes since and would be bad to have it fail under a load..  I will check out AGCO and get the right size!

I meant to mention they are not expensive. It was something like 49 cents. More expensive than buying o-rings in bulk, sure, but still not enough for me to save literally a few dollars on all the o-rings combined and wonder if I had gotten the right sizes and had as good of quality parts.
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I have a CA that needs split...think connection on drive shaft at transmission broken somewhere.  I used it for years with woods belly mower.  It mowed really well.  It has been sitting for 4 or 5 years, and I have too many other projects (and a new zero turn mower),  so I would like to sell it.  I have not advertised it yet but I would like $1,200 for tractor and mower as is.  Many great parts, including sheet metal, wheels and tires.  Engine ran well, but used some oil.  Are you interested in more parts for your project?
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"STANDARD" O-ring THICKNESSES are .070 , .103 , .139 , and .210 inches THICKNESS  (why they are odd, i dont know.. probably from a metric conversion ?) .... there are probalby a FEW that are made to 1/16 , 1/8 inch, etc..
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Originally posted by wjohn wjohn wrote:

I would defer to others w/ experience but since nobody has responded yet... I personally would not be comfortable with the o-ring situation. I just redid the pump in my WD (95% of it is the same as a CA) and got the o-ring from AGCO. Not sure what size it was but they all of the o-rings were a pretty tight fit to install over the different internal parts. None of mine shaved anything off when installing into the bores, at least that I was able to see.
 

Thank you and appreciate the message.  It makes since and would be bad to have it fail under a load..  I will check out AGCO and get the right size!

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Edited by CA13414 - 08 Jun 2024 at 12:56pm
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I would defer to others w/ experience but since nobody has responded yet... I personally would not be comfortable with the o-ring situation. I just redid the pump in my WD (95% of it is the same as a CA) and got the o-ring from AGCO. Not sure what size it was but they all of the o-rings were a pretty tight fit to install over the different internal parts. None of mine shaved anything off when installing into the bores, at least that I was able to see.
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Thank you! 

I often forget to take the pictures, however, they really do help keep track of all the effort.  As well, as I review and post photos, I write down things I need to do on my ToDo List.  Has been fun!

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Edited by CA13414 - 07 Jun 2024 at 10:38pm
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