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GM- Ford going all electric ??????

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DougG View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 2:02pm
So both of these companies last week announced they are spending billions of dollars on new factories/ plants to build batteries/ new all electric cars etc - in my opinion , i do believe they are at the point of being foreign owned - like Dodge is -  where is all this money coming from ? Makes no sense
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 2:33pm
Fed Subsidy's is where is coming from Bite Me's agenda is deplete all fuel consuming vehicles, has yet to understand Power Stations are being RETIRED at alarming rate with only worthless Renewables unable to deliver actual needs going up at 1/10th the retired values.  Will be NOT NEAR enough power to charge a go cart let alone 30 million Electric Cars.

Edited by DMiller - 10 Oct 2021 at 2:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 4:50pm
Originally posted by DougG DougG wrote:

So both of these companies last week announced they are spending billions of dollars on new factories/ plants to build batteries/ new all electric cars etc - in my opinion , i do believe they are at the point of being foreign owned - like Dodge is -  where is all this money coming from ? Makes no sense
Is FIAT mandating "all electric" ???
Is GM "free and clear" from their earlier bail-out" ?? The verdict is still out on whether Ford has any "skin" in the bail-out debacle (depends on who you listen to) Confused .
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DMiller View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 5:28pm
Obummer excused GM, Ford did NOT accept Bailout Money.  Fiat Chrysler has not paid theirs back either.

Entire post needs moved to Politics Section.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PaulB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 6:15pm
#1 Most of these buying electric vehicles fail to realize that many power plants providing the electric for the "plug in power" are still coal fired and in the long run are generating more pollution than the same vehicle would if it was gasoline fueled.  Wacko
 #2 None of the new car makers will be getting any money from me. What I have now will  outlast me. Thumbs Up
If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 7:01pm
Saw an article from GM... They said the new trucks have half as many moving parts and will SELL for the same money , so they are figuring to RAPE EVERYONE over the next 30 years... They will sell to the RICH as the peons done have the money and dont want the electric....... especially in the rural........... Maybe in 20 years it will be a plan.. Right now, dont look so good.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 7:25pm
Yup. Just waiting for all the geenieasses to get more electric cars that need charging than we have electric power to do so. Maybe only drive your battery powered car every other day to save on the electricity power grid...??
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 7:52pm
Couple years down the road, a nice used truck with a small gas engine getting 20 mpg, might be worth a FORTUNE !!

Edited by steve(ill) - 10 Oct 2021 at 7:53pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 10:44pm
Well, of course, the plan is to close current coal fired, gas, and hydro plants, push the solar panels and wind turbines, which most of the policy makers are heavily invested in. Also, rationing power to the masses to save mother earth may be on the agenda. Of course, all six of Al Gores estates, Pelousys mansion, as well as the Gates,  etc homesteads will be lit up like Christmas trees!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 3:09am
when/if we go all electric, what will gas and diesel be used for?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shameless dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 3:18am
if GM and any other companies wanna sell vehicles in CA, they'll hafta go all electric by 2024. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Alberta Phil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 9:53am
Sounds to me like Cali.  is heading back to horse and buggy transportation!!  No gas or oil allowed and not near enough electricity available.  Big advantage will be all the fertilizer available for all those veggie farms!! LOL


Edited by Alberta Phil - 11 Oct 2021 at 9:54am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 10:55am
yeah butt, there be a LOT of 'harmful, greenhouse gases' acoming outta their new rides....LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 11:22am
AHH......... the GOOD OLD DAYS !!

The problem of course was that all these horses produced huge amounts of manure. A horse will on average produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day. Consequently, the streets of nineteenth-century cities were covered by horse manure. This in turn attracted huge numbers of flies, and the dried and ground-up manure was blown everywhere. In New York in 1900, the population of 100,000 horses produced 2.5 million pounds of horse manure per day, which all had to be swept up and disposed of. 

I guess that will solve the UNEMPLOYMENT problem ?...New "GREEN JOBS" .... CHIT shoveler.. HELP WANTED ?  Wink


Edited by steve(ill) - 11 Oct 2021 at 11:25am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 2:21pm
  If California does away with combustion engine then they won't be having any farmers left.
   The coal burning plant that our electric comes from has cleaners and all that is imited into the air is steam.
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This place is not called The Land of Fruits and Nuts for nothing.LOL



We got till 35 to get the horse and buggy, and that is only the governors declaration that ant even a law like the no small gas powered stuff is. 

Phil he said this summer farmers are not needed they just waste water he wants for the cities. There are water rights that go back to 1849 that where hashed out in court in a case that ended in 1914. If you owned those it was considered if there was a drop of water in the river it was yours. But they suspended those rights this year so what water was there the fish could get back to the ocean. Me thinks there could be things coming the the US SUPREMUM COURT.


We have water regulators on top of water regulators and part of them are by area. But what starts at one gets to all real quick. In my area on the coast that can grow vegetable year round and gets 3 crops off the same acre sometimes. We have new rules about fertilizer you are only allowed enough for one crop a year.   So you better figure out how to cook the poison out Chinese food. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dee_veloper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 2:54pm
I'm  OK with the concept of electric vehicles.  it's been shown that pollution is less even with the power plant issues.

The fundamental problem I have with electric vehicles is the assumption that people can afford them.  So far, even with rebates,  the prices are so high I for one will never be able to afford them.  I can't even imagine what the insurance cost will be.  The complex electronics and battery packs will never be repairable.  All servicing will have to be done by dealerships who will control ownership of parts and technology.  Small repair shops won't have access to either of those.

So, unless people get electric-car subsidies, I don't see the majority of people being able to switch over.  Unfortunately, the price of gas and used gas vehicles will also sky rocket as the conversion continues.  It's probably a good thing I don't have many more driving years ahead of me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 4:55pm
MAJOR Emission or Disposal issue on Electric Autos is the batteries, hard to recycle and more expensive yet to replace where the car is worth LESS than the battery replacement cost at four to five years age.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dee_veloper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 6:19pm
Originally posted by DMiller DMiller wrote:

MAJOR Emission or Disposal issue on Electric Autos is the batteries, hard to recycle and more expensive yet to replace where the car is worth LESS than the battery replacement cost at four to five years age.


There will also likely be a charge for the recycling system similar to tires.   The only viable option might be that everybody has to lease these vehicles.  Okay for businesses because they can write off the costs.  Non-business owners cannot.  Tax credits don't help most folks because their income is too low anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 6:26pm
Originally posted by DrAllis DrAllis wrote:

Yup. Just waiting for all the geenieasses to get more electric cars that need charging than we have electric power to do so. Maybe only drive your battery powered car every other day to save on the electricity power grid...??
 
Just how many PENNIES are required to run a battery charger and how will this be any more of a  drain on a "GRID" compared to a heat wave and home/business  A/C  EmbarrassedConfused ??


Edited by FREEDGUY - 11 Oct 2021 at 6:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jaybmiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 6:27pm
yeah, F150 or Estang 'battery pack' will be a $12K+ ordeal every 6 years.
That's a minimum $2,000 a year 'throw away', plus taxes of course.
Man no wonder the car companies and guvs 'going green'.....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 7:06pm
so anyone that is for this. Would you feel safe if your local fire trucks, ambulances emt’s or even the town, state highway plow-salt trucks being all in running electric.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mikez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 7:09pm
know a guy that works in scrap yard. They won’t let any type of them in the yard. Nothing of value to scrap and I guess dangerous even without batteries 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:23pm
Just how many PENNIES are required to run a battery charger and how will this be any more of a  drain on a "GRID" 


?????? So you think you can drive a car/ truck with BATTERIES all day long, then plug in your 6 amp charger and REFILL it in a few hours ???   You ever hear of Perpetual motion ??  LOL   Wink

Most of the "chargers" are 240 volts and pull 50 amps to FULLY recharge the batteries in one shift.....WAY beyond your AC unit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trawler II Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:27pm
Major automakers want to sell cars, if they see electric as the future I say they will get the price point down to an affordable level. I've read that 60% of a Tesla battery is recycled, the recycling isn't done at your average scrap yard. 

I've also seen reports where Tesla batteries have been in use for 400,000 miles with a 9% reduction in efficiency. This longevity more than likely has to do with how well the battery pack was managed, much the same as maintenance on a combustion engine. 

One thing for sure is that change is coming whether us old dinosaurs want it or not.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:33pm
can FreeGas use his $49. charger from Wal Mart ?  LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LouSWPA Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 10:40pm
Originally posted by Trawler II Trawler II wrote:

Major automakers want to sell cars, if they see electric as the future I say they will get the price point down to an affordable level. I've read that 60% of a Tesla battery is recycled, the recycling isn't done at your average scrap yard. 

I've also seen reports where Tesla batteries have been in use for 400,000 miles with a 9% reduction in efficiency. This longevity more than likely has to do with how well the battery pack was managed, much the same as maintenance on a combustion engine. 

One thing for sure is that change is coming whether us old dinosaurs want it or not.

ya, maybe......or maybe you are reading baloney from the same folks that have been telling us just how great windmills are! who is doing the studies, who is funding them.....etc
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9%? what you smoking?  batteries go down like 30% in winter and will raise some if you keep the batteries heated... until their draw down gets to a point of no juice.
 And you don't have a steady supply because of cost for the fossil fuels to run the generators and the windermills will not be able to support loads if coal and natural gas stops flowing... better have a well insulated sleeping bag if it comes to all grids going down in january and february...   Specially when biteyou tells you it's going to be a dark cold winter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dee_veloper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 11:45pm

What is the Cost to Charge an EV in kWh?

“A conservative rule of thumb is that an electric car gets 3 to 4 miles per kWh,” Voelcker says. “So divide the total miles you drive each month by 3, to get the kWh you would use monthly. Multiply that number by your cost per kWh. The dollar amount you get will most likely be lower than what you pay each month to buy gasoline.”

To put this into perspective, let’s give an example. Let’s say you drive about 540 miles per month. For an EV, you will use 180 kWh in that timeframe. Using the U.S. household average from May 2021 of 14 cents per kWh, it would cost $25.20/month to charge an EV.


https://www.kbb.com/car-news/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-ev/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tbone95 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:26am
Originally posted by JC(WI) JC(WI) wrote:

9%? what you smoking?  batteries go down like 30% in winter and will raise some if you keep the batteries heated... until their draw down gets to a point of no juice.
 And you don't have a steady supply because of cost for the fossil fuels to run the generators and the windermills will not be able to support loads if coal and natural gas stops flowing... better have a well insulated sleeping bag if it comes to all grids going down in january and february...   Specially when biteyou tells you it's going to be a dark cold winter.


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