GM- Ford going all electric ??????
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Shops, Barns, Varmints, and Trucks
Forum Description: anything you want to talk about except politics
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=183812
Printed Date: 18 Apr 2024 at 10:48am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: GM- Ford going all electric ??????
Posted By: DougG
Subject: GM- Ford going all electric ??????
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 2:02pm
| So both of these companies last week announced they are spending billions of dollars on new factories/ plants to build batteries/ new all electric cars etc - in my opinion , i do believe they are at the point of being foreign owned - like Dodge is - where is all this money coming from ? Makes no sense |
Replies:
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 2:33pm
| Fed Subsidy's is where is coming from Bite Me's agenda is deplete all fuel consuming vehicles, has yet to understand Power Stations are being RETIRED at alarming rate with only worthless Renewables unable to deliver actual needs going up at 1/10th the retired values. Will be NOT NEAR enough power to charge a go cart let alone 30 million Electric Cars. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 4:50pm
Is FIAT mandating "all electric" ??? Is GM "free and clear" from their earlier bail-out" ?? The verdict is still out on whether Ford has any "skin" in the bail-out debacle (depends on who you listen to)
 . |
DougG wrote:Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 5:28pm
|
Obummer excused GM, Ford did NOT accept Bailout Money. Fiat Chrysler has not paid theirs back either. Entire post needs moved to Politics Section.
|
Posted By: PaulB
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 6:15pm
#1 Most of these buying electric vehicles fail to realize that many power plants providing the electric for the "plug in power" are still coal fired and in the long run are generating more pollution than the same vehicle would if it was gasoline fueled.  #2 None of the new car makers will be getting any money from me. What I have now will outlast me.  ------------- If it was fun to pull in LOW gear, I could have a John Deere. If you can't make it GO... make it SHINY |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 7:01pm
|
Saw an article from GM... They said the new trucks have half as many moving parts and will SELL for the same money , so they are figuring to RAPE EVERYONE over the next 30 years... They will sell to the RICH as the peons done have the money and dont want the electric....... especially in the rural........... Maybe in 20 years it will be a plan.. Right now, dont look so good. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 7:25pm
| Yup. Just waiting for all the geenieasses to get more electric cars that need charging than we have electric power to do so. Maybe only drive your battery powered car every other day to save on the electricity power grid...?? |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 7:52pm
|
Couple years down the road, a nice used truck with a small gas engine getting 20 mpg, might be worth a FORTUNE !!
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 10 Oct 2021 at 10:44pm
|
Well, of course, the plan is to close current coal fired, gas, and hydro plants, push the solar panels and wind turbines, which most of the policy makers are heavily invested in. Also, rationing power to the masses to save mother earth may be on the agenda. Of course, all six of Al Gores estates, Pelousys mansion, as well as the Gates, etc homesteads will be lit up like Christmas trees! ------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 3:09am
| when/if we go all electric, what will gas and diesel be used for? |
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 3:18am
| if GM and any other companies wanna sell vehicles in CA, they'll hafta go all electric by 2024. |
Posted By: Alberta Phil
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 9:53am
|
Sounds to me like Cali. is heading back to horse and buggy transportation!! No gas or oil allowed and not near enough electricity available. Big advantage will be all the fertilizer available for all those veggie farms!! LOL |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 10:55am
yeah butt, there be a LOT of 'harmful, greenhouse gases' acoming outta their new rides.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 11:22am
|
AHH......... the GOOD OLD DAYS !! The problem of course was that all these horses produced huge amounts of manure. A horse will on average produce between 15 and 35 pounds of manure per day. Consequently, the streets of nineteenth-century cities were covered by horse manure. This in turn attracted huge numbers of flies, and the dried and ground-up manure was blown everywhere. In New York in 1900, the population of 100,000 horses produced 2.5 million pounds of horse manure per day, which all had to be swept up and disposed of. I guess that will solve the UNEMPLOYMENT problem ?...New "GREEN JOBS" .... CHIT shoveler.. HELP WANTED ?
 ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 2:21pm
|
If California does away with combustion engine then they won't be having any farmers left. The coal burning plant that our electric comes from has cleaners and all that is imited into the air is steam.
|
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 2:34pm
|
This place is not called The Land of Fruits and Nuts for nothing. We got till 35 to get the horse and buggy, and that is only the governors declaration that ant even a law like the no small gas powered stuff is. Phil he said this summer farmers are not needed they just waste water he wants for the cities. There are water rights that go back to 1849 that where hashed out in court in a case that ended in 1914. If you owned those it was considered if there was a drop of water in the river it was yours. But they suspended those rights this year so what water was there the fish could get back to the ocean. Me thinks there could be things coming the the US SUPREMUM COURT. We have water regulators on top of water regulators and part of them are by area. But what starts at one gets to all real quick. In my area on the coast that can grow vegetable year round and gets 3 crops off the same acre sometimes. We have new rules about fertilizer you are only allowed enough for one crop a year. So you better figure out how to cook the poison out Chinese food.
|
Posted By: dee_veloper
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 2:54pm
|
I'm OK with the concept of electric vehicles. it's been shown that pollution is less even with the power plant issues. The fundamental problem I have with electric vehicles is the assumption that people can afford them. So far, even with rebates, the prices are so high I for one will never be able to afford them. I can't even imagine what the insurance cost will be. The complex electronics and battery packs will never be repairable. All servicing will have to be done by dealerships who will control ownership of parts and technology. Small repair shops won't have access to either of those. So, unless people get electric-car subsidies, I don't see the majority of people being able to switch over. Unfortunately, the price of gas and used gas vehicles will also sky rocket as the conversion continues. It's probably a good thing I don't have many more driving years ahead of me. ------------- Don't confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 4:55pm
| MAJOR Emission or Disposal issue on Electric Autos is the batteries, hard to recycle and more expensive yet to replace where the car is worth LESS than the battery replacement cost at four to five years age. |
Posted By: dee_veloper
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 6:19pm
There will also likely be a charge for the recycling system similar to tires. The only viable option might be that everybody has to lease these vehicles. Okay for businesses because they can write off the costs. Non-business owners cannot. Tax credits don't help most folks because their income is too low anyway. ------------- Don't confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 6:26pm
Just how many PENNIES are required to run a battery charger and how will this be any more of a drain on a "GRID" compared to a heat wave and home/business A/C
 ?? |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 6:27pm
|
yeah, F150 or Estang 'battery pack' will be a $12K+ ordeal every 6 years. That's a minimum $2,000 a year 'throw away', plus taxes of course. Man no wonder the car companies and guvs 'going green'..... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 7:06pm
| so anyone that is for this. Would you feel safe if your local fire trucks, ambulances emt’s or even the town, state highway plow-salt trucks being all in running electric. |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 7:09pm
| know a guy that works in scrap yard. They won’t let any type of them in the yard. Nothing of value to scrap and I guess dangerous even without batteries |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:23pm
|
Just how many PENNIES are required to run a battery charger and how will this be any more of a drain on a "GRID" ?????? So you think you can drive a car/ truck with BATTERIES all day long, then plug in your 6 amp charger and REFILL it in a few hours ??? You ever hear of Perpetual motion ?? Most of the "chargers" are 240 volts and pull 50 amps to FULLY recharge the batteries in one shift.....WAY beyond your AC unit. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Trawler II
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:27pm
|
Major automakers want to sell cars, if they see electric as the future I say they will get the price point down to an affordable level. I've read that 60% of a Tesla battery is recycled, the recycling isn't done at your average scrap yard. I've also seen reports where Tesla batteries have been in use for 400,000 miles with a 9% reduction in efficiency. This longevity more than likely has to do with how well the battery pack was managed, much the same as maintenance on a combustion engine. One thing for sure is that change is coming whether us old dinosaurs want it or not.
|
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 8:33pm
|
can FreeGas use his $49. charger from Wal Mart ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: LouSWPA
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 10:40pm
------------- I am still confident of this; I will see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living. Wait for the Lord; be strong and take heart and wait for the Lord. Ps 27 |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 10:57pm
|
9%? what you smoking? batteries go down like 30% in winter and will raise some if you keep the batteries heated... until their draw down gets to a point of no juice. And you don't have a steady supply because of cost for the fossil fuels to run the generators and the windermills will not be able to support loads if coal and natural gas stops flowing... better have a well insulated sleeping bag if it comes to all grids going down in january and february... Specially when biteyou tells you it's going to be a dark cold winter. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: dee_veloper
Date Posted: 11 Oct 2021 at 11:45pm
What is the Cost to Charge an EV in kWh?“A conservative rule of thumb is that an electric car gets 3 to 4 miles per kWh,” Voelcker says. “So divide the total miles you drive each month by 3, to get the kWh you would use monthly. Multiply that number by your cost per kWh. The dollar amount you get will most likely be lower than what you pay each month to buy gasoline.” To put this into perspective, let’s give an example. Let’s say you drive about 540 miles per month. For an EV, you will use 180 kWh in that timeframe. Using the U.S. household average from May 2021 of 14 cents per kWh, it would cost $25.20/month to charge an EV. https://www.kbb.com/car-news/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-ev/" rel="nofollow - https://www.kbb.com/car-news/how-much-does-it-cost-to-charge-an-ev/ ------------- Don't confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:26am
https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2021/05/13/ev-range-breakthrough-as-new-aluminum-ion-battery-charges-60-times-faster-than-lithium-ion/?sh=746dec016d28" rel="nofollow - https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaeltaylor/2021/05/13/ev-range-breakthrough-as-new-aluminum-ion-battery-charges-60-times-faster-than-lithium-ion/?sh=746dec016d28 |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 8:50am
|
To put this into perspective, let’s give an example. Let’s say you drive about 540 miles per month. Well if your RETIRED and dont go anywhere, then 6000 miles per year is a good FUDGE NUMBER... If your working, many are driving 20,000 miles per year. ... But the articles AGENDA was to show how CHEAP it would be, NOT THE REAL COST. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 3:30pm
|
heck, I haven't gone 6000 miles since the Chinese gave us the virus...coming up 3 years+or-..... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 4:35pm
|
YEP... me neither... But i use to travel 25 miles to work, then 25 back every day for 40 years........ Both of my kids do almost 100 miles a day round trip.... Thats 500 PER WEEK, not per month.... lot of people do it.. 15-20K per year is "normal". ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 4:56pm
|
A friend of my drives his Tesla to work every day, about 12 miles one way, says it cost between $20.00 and $25.00 per month to charge it, (His charger in his garage, is 120 volt) Unless he's starting out on a long trip, he does not charge it over 80%. Lithium ion batteries if charged slowly to avoid overheating the batteries, will last a long time. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 5:44pm
|
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 5:49pm
My current battery charger cost me over a $180 smart ass !! And JUST how do you KNOW so much about EVERYTHING, farm (I assume), take TOO much effort in your "political" stance AND make time for 60,000+ posts ????
|
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 5:50pm
They are talking about a tinker toy car... NOT your 5 ton lumber wagon you call a TRUCK !!  ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 5:54pm
Answer my question please
 !! What do you "DO" other than attempt to call me out |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:01pm
|
DO ??? ............. 100 DIFFERENT THINGS !! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:04pm
Wow, a whole $180 eh? Just for fun, price a Tesla home charging station, and see what you think. Think about it, you’re talking about the power to drive a vehicle 100s of miles instead of STARTING a vehicle for a few seconds. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:24pm
|
Tesla COMPATIBLE Chargers are google listed, anywhere from $1600.00 to $7900.00, and will need MORE than One if have two vehicles that get used daily over the same time frame, generally speaking will need one for EACH Car you have if ALL Electric to get them all sufficiently charged before going to work/school. 60 Amp DEDICATED Breaker for EACH, thus a ADDITIONAL 200A Service JUST for Car Chargers. https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging" rel="nofollow - Home Charging | Tesla The OTHER Gorilla in the room is the Replacement Battery at Five + Years, they do NOT last forever nor do they come Cheap. Like $13000, and NO Tesla has been on the road for Eight Years quoted for Warranty. I will be surprised if not prorated at five. https://www.findmyelectric.com/blog/tesla-battery-replacement-cost-explained/" rel="nofollow - Tesla Battery Replacement Cost Explained (findmyelectric.com) Figure that into recovery on Investment when cannot sell the Car with a bad or aged battery may be able to trade into another but at That LOVELY New Car cost. Prius and Leaf Owners already feel this pain. As for the General Street Guy that usually buys USED, as I have, how much to Transfer the remainder of that Eight Year original owner Battery Warranty? Can it EVEN BE transferred? How much is a five+ year old Tesla selling for these days and can you get that three years problem free if NO Warranty as second owner. Personally I do NOT have $80k to pay for a SINGLE Auto new, would NOT finance that much either as payments would be drastically NIGHTMARISHLY Huge. Ford's Electric Pickup, expected to cost in excess of $75K, GMs Similar, Tesla's is already figured near to $70K for one BUTT Ugly beast.
|
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:46pm
| Dang it Dave!!! You were supposed to let him do it himself! Then we’d lead him through the rest piece by piece. You just wrote way too much for him to follow all at once! |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 6:50pm
|
Gassy still thinks his 12 v charger is going to work... Dont have a CLUE what an ELECTRIC VEHICLE uses for batteries.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 7:05pm
| My question about Electric Vehicles is the cost to upgrade Generation and the Grid to handle the additional load! Consumers Energy just put up 80 some Wind Turbines in our area after shutting down one Coal Fired Generator. They are supposed to run on demand,and on a few windless days did not run at all! Our local Co Op is installing some Solar Panels to satisfy the Powers that Be and along with other members of the Coperative installing a Gas Fired Generator. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 7:19pm
|
Normal wind mill is about 3 MegaWatts...... A coal fired power plant from 1960 is about 200 MegaWatts.... Newer coal power unit from 1980 vintage are 6-700 MegaWatts..... so YES... it can take 80 - 250 windmills to replace ONE coal fired unit. ... and you can have 2-3-4 UNITS per Power Plant.. Take the big LABADIE coal plant in St Louis.. 4 units, total 2500 MW.... if you retire it, you will need about 800 wind mills to replace.... they are starting to build BIGGER windmills, but having all that ROTATING MASS up 250 ft in the air is a JOKE. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: dee_veloper
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 7:22pm
Good grief. You completely missed the point. The author merely presented an example to show people how to calculate the cost. Not present a target figure. People are expected to plug in their own mileage and their own utility rates to calculate their expected costs. ------------- Don't confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 7:25pm
|
I didnt miss anything....... the whole point of the article was to convince people that they could charge a car for $25. a month............ SLOW PEOPLE will fall for that AGENDA.
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 8:50pm
|
re: People are expected to plug in their own mileage and their own utility rates to calculate their expected costs. right....if you LOOK at the BS hydro bill I get, you'll assume it's 11c/KwH BUT do the REAL math, at it's closer to 25C/KwH. Kerbang..cost is DOUBLE what you 'think'.... If I had 2 EVs here (when pigs fly over frozen hell..) I'd have to upgrade to a 400A service !! 100a/car+house(200a),FORCED into that cause hydro ONLY install 200a or 400a services. It'd actually be cheaper to get 3 phase from the pole though.1 for house, 1 for EV#1, 1 for EV#2. There are charges that can do a FULL recharge in 30 minutes BUT you still pay for EVERY electron as 'smart' meters KNOW exactly what you're using.... ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: dee_veloper
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 9:25pm
...and you're still missing it. ------------- Don't confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are. |
Posted By: dee_veloper
Date Posted: 12 Oct 2021 at 9:27pm
I doubt if most billings are deceptive . i know mine is accurate. Regardless, plug in any number you want. ------------- Don't confuse my personality with my attitude. My personality is who I am. My attitude depends on who you are. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 3:37am
|
Was explained by a ex coworker he was installing Solar at his home as was Zero expense and would net Zero on his electricity bill. Never happened. First up installed on roof as no yard area to set them, two years later roof leaks at the retainer screws MULTIPLE leaks. Pull all panels, replaced roof reinstall panels then major faults as panels reattachments caused and solar contractor had to come find then repair, NOT warranty as panels were moved without the solar contractor doing it, three cells trashed. Next up he receives billing from his provider, pays retail rate, his return rate at Less than 1/2 total Consumption was less than 1/4 of his total bill as credited at Wholesale rate, then charged equipment usage fees to place His energy back on the grid. Genuinely was Net Zero Energy Bill, for his supplier. Stated he managed to see a 1/4 usage credit for the last year but due to he and his wife energy conscious savings efforts. He is not any longer impressed with solar systems where any further issues he is accepting the loss and “removing the junk”. |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 4:41am
? That is NOT how 3ph works. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 6:15am
|
I can physically get 100A 3 PH from the pole into my house cheaper than 400A single phase. Yeah, sounds crazy, but welcome to Ontario Hydro. Looked into this 4-5 years ago, idea was to repalce the 23HP gas engine on the sawmill with an electric motor. Quiet and clean,great for inside the shop.The 'distribution transformer' needed for the 'magic' to get 2PH, 240V 100 was a freebie, and if you don't connect one leg to the 'power monitor' chunk, that leg is um, shh, 'free' energy. DM's solar story is quite common. Have 5 neighbour's with 10KW systems. Yes, they do make money, but ONLY because the guv said we'll pay you 80c/KwH for 20 YEARS, it's NOT that they actually MAKE 10KwH of solar energy ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 6:39am
|
And as usual, once the facts started coming, gassy was gone like the fart in a wind that he is. Told you it would be too much for him to comprehend!
|
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 8:27am
|
jay is right on the 3 phase power..."NORMALLY" you would get 3 phase power to run 3 phase equipment... But it is actually 3 SINGLE PHASE combined... You can divide the 3 phase wires out to get 3 different single phases ........ also Jordan has a point..........to complicated to go into it completely Jay, but remember the 300 AMPS on 3 phases is not 3 x 100 what you would get in single phase... something to do with square root of 3 .
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 8:52am
|
Yup thats a typical solar panel story. Fellow north of here thought he could make some real interest on his money he had in investments... and cut his electric bill to nothing. Took out his 17000 bucks and bought the equipment. Then since he is still working, the contractors installed the system and hooked it up for him... and that was near what the first bill was. It was suppose to be over rated for supply of electricity to the house and 'shop' in the winter time. First couple years when snow came, he kept a trail plowed in front of the solar panels and the snow scraped off of them. After that the snow wasn't swept off and no trail plowed. Asked him one day how the panels worked out and he said he made more interest off the moneys that were invested in failing stocks than he did with his solar panels and wished he never bought the solar system. He said in the summer would sell some electric back to power company but winter time, it generated 1/6th of the power required because he didn't put in the tracking system, which would have cost more... and probably wouldn't have worked as well as they said they would. I have noticed in the last few years he doesn't even bother mowing the weeds under them... but he spends time cutting firewood for his winter heat. Think he will buy into battery cars? I highly doubt it, he already has been burnt by the greenie ideologies of nonsense. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 5:37pm
Yet you still evade an honest question
 |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 5:41pm
Why would I do that ? I don't own a TESLA !!From what I've read, 220 volts AC is a WHOLE lot cheaper to run than 110/120
|
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 5:42pm
|
Whats your problem GASSY ? No evading anytihing.... I dont have "ONE" job that takes most of my time each week... Had a job welding 30 hours last week.. Built 3 duck blinds a few weeks before that.... Cut out and welded up three 15 ft trailers a couple months ago..
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 5:49pm
So, you're retired, probably taking in WAY too much union pension, pulling in SS payments and have nothing better to do with your time than "scan the site" and belittle whomever disagrees with you  ? Am I accurate on several statements ???
|
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 5:57pm
|
NOPE... no Union Pension... NEVER was in the union... Do what i want, when i want...... Pointing out your ignorance is just ICING ON THE CAKE !! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 6:09pm
|
also you keep pointing out about all the "OLD PEOPLE" on this site , that will NOT get the WUHAN SHOT.... Do you realize that the "OVER 65" have the HIGHEST PERCENTAGE of VAX of any age group ? ........... Do your research..
and YOU are WAY OFF the original TOPIC !!....... I thought that was a cardinal SIN for you ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 6:26pm
Why? That’s an easy one. So you aren’t so ignorant of the topic you’re blathering on. Your $180 12 VDC somehow makes a point for you, but the facts about the topic at hand you shouldn’t look into….ok…, |
Posted By: ACFarmer
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 7:43pm
If theres anybody on this site that spends too much time on random topics trying to up his post count, I would believe that's you. ------------- Making A living everyday farming with and working on Allis Equipment |
Posted By: bemer848
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 8:22pm
| Gassy is tonight another sudsy drinking posting night? |
Posted By: klinemar
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 9:26pm
|
FREEDGUY wrote: So, you're retired, probably taking in WAY too much union pension, pulling in SS payments and have nothing better to do with your time than "scan the site" and belittle whomever disagrees with you Stern Smile ? Am I accurate on several statements ??? So Freedguy your statement about retired persons being on a Union Pension or getting Social Security shows some jealousy! |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 13 Oct 2021 at 9:35pm
|
I called my engine guy today and told him to build me a 5.7 with fuel injection to give me 3-4 hundred HP which is about double what I have now. That said would you all please buy electric vehicles so there will be a glut of cheap gas for me......please. 😂 ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 4:43am
| Buddy of mine is buying up all the used Chainsaws and string trimmers can find here, going to sneak them in thru CA Entry ports by packing them in containers marked 'Scrap' so can corner the Black Market!!! |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 7:39am
Ya' know....I seriously wonder about that "cheap gas". I have a hunch, er, a BAD feeling, gas is going to be regulated/taxed/controlled so badly by some means, that the contrary will actually be what happens.
 |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 1:57pm
|
Kind of back to the subject it takes HORESPOWER to move a people hauler no matter what you call it. Be it horse and buggy, ox cart, salves hauling a chair on there shoulders , gasoline powered car , or electric car you need fuel for it. We are using all the electric power generated currently ( could use more some day/ brown outs ). Common sense ( which is very uncommon) says any new power generation is going to cost more than power being made now. All hell breaks out if you even think we could build a damm and making hydro power. To get it from solar and wind you need way more panels or mills than a straight math answer would say because they only work part of the time. So all the calculations everyone has been showing need to upped. Just how much is the question. But double the current cost would not be surprise to me. And what happens when we get cut off from the special materials needed to make all the batteries as the Chinese are way ahead in the race to own them. Just for all the sheepel that lessen to talking heads on TV all the time hope that electric car works out be as cheap as you think.
|
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 4:40pm
|
GEES Ray.... Sounds like you dont think this is A GREAT PLAN !!! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 7:24pm
But you don't run 1 phase to house, 1 for charger 1, and 1 for charger 2, which is how you made it sound. |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 14 Oct 2021 at 8:47pm
I unfortunately agree. If the sale of gas drops so too will the tax revenue and thus they will increase the tax rate. But as far as my wife is concerned I'm going with my first statement.😆 ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 5:13am
|
Three Phase 480v can be separated to single phases and use a transformer to drop the single phases to 120 or 240v, was how we did it at the nuke for internal power supplies to the plant. Same distribution breaker center would have 480 3ph 204v 3ph, 240v single ph breakers and 120v panels. And yes, if readily available it is cheaper to have a 3ph drop sent into a building than a single ph set up.
|
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 6:32am
|
yeah, I know I didn't xplain real guud...was dumfounded that 3ph drop was cheaper than 400A 'regular' service. good(?) news is I sold next door and the sawmill BEFORE I'd commited to the power upgrade. ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 8:53am
|
The larger underlying issue is EROEI (Energy Returned On Energy Invested) We consumers tend to look at dollars returned on dollars invested because that is what first impacts us. The overwhelming majority of so-called 'Green Energy' installations never return as much energy as was used to build them. Net loss. Pretty tough to keep that up long term |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 9:17am
|
Les....... there is an old joke... " I loose money on every sale, but i make it up in VOLUME" ..... ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 10:38am
|
re: Net loss. Pretty tough to keep that up long term but the federal budget works........ trillions, and trillions in debt, country is still 'doing great'........ ------------- 3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112 Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor) Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 12:59pm
No clue how it will end. Just know politicians are dummer than rocks so if they demand you do something 99% chance it is wrong.My first battery powered drill was gift from my parents Skil brand about 1980. It was junk, battery was built into drill no getting another battery and keep going. By the the 90's battery drills where getting some good reviews. I had job that included hanging a bunch of gate off old power poles. Needed 5/8 wholes, did not want use a good augur bit. So I got the new at the time 19.2 Craftsmen 1/2 chuck, better than I expected. My kids get me a impact that used that 19.2 battery. Had no expectation of it being any good. Twenty years latter still works good if I spend money on new battlers every few years. So in 20 or 30 years a solar panel on the car roof may keep you going all day. But the argument that electric is cheap and will stay that way is very short sited. But I am off topic so some are about to ..........................
.    |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 1:02pm
|
Hay Steve look at that if I post this get another.............................. But this is 3500. Would somebody explain what the prize is for post number? Come on Steve what have they given you..........beside trouble.
|
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 1:15pm
Ray54, your just a peeon to old poster 4138... but if you start posting faster and shorter blurbs, you will zip right past him and then he will hafta look up to you!   or maybe be berated by hym for hav'n soooo many more posts than he has...  ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 1:16pm
|
Ray, YA dont get NUTHIN till you hits 10,000 posts..... Prize for that is 6 empty gum wrappers.... Next step is 20,000 .... 4 old apple cores........ by the time you get to 50,000 you get the GOOD STUFF ! ... 2 worn out draw bar pins !! Congrats on the 3500 !!! ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 3:08pm
Yup. That which cannot continue, will not continue. When one takes into account the energy costs of building new equipment (mining of raw materials, transportation, refining, manufacturing, etc.), it becomes apparent that the best thing we can do for the environment is to keep the old iron running. This is exactly what this website is dedicated to. Keep up the good work folks!  |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 8:33pm
|
(CNN)The Clean Electricity Performance Program, the https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/house-clean-energy-program-climate/index.html" rel="nofollow - cornerstone https://www.cnn.com/2021/09/09/politics/house-clean-energy-program-climate/index.html" rel="nofollow - climate policy in Democrats' massive social safety net package, will likely be dropped from the final budget deal after pushback from Sen. Joe Manchin of West Virginia, three congressional sources told CNN. "He is not there on the CEPP period. We've been trying," one Democratic aide with knowledge of the negotiations told CNN. The aide told CNN that Democrats are trying to find ways to restructure the program to fit Manchin's concerns while still reducing greenhouse gas emissions. "If there's a deal to be struck in the next few days, I don't think there's anything resembling CEPP in there." The New York Times first reported the measure would likely be cut. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Jordan(OH)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 8:33pm
I'm well aware how 3ph works. But running one phase of 3ph to a structure would only provide L-N loads, no L-L loads.
|
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 15 Oct 2021 at 8:56pm
|
you would have 3 HOT wires that have 240 volts between any 2 wires... and a separate ground... Normally the three wires feed a 3 phase motor..... What you would do in this case is run wires 1 and 2 to one breaker box and have 240 volts single phase... you would run 2 and 3 wires to the second box and have 240 volts single phase ( out of phase with the first box)... then you would run wires 3 and 1 to box #3 to have 240 v single phase ( out of phase with boxes 1 and 2).... the #2 and #3 box would be ONLY 240 volts and could supple a charger / welder / water heater / saw mill motor......... The #1 box would need a transformer to get 120 v out of the 240v supply so you could run lights and wall plugs....... It could work... Have done similar with 480 v 3 phase to run heating elements on single phase 480v. the only problem might be BALANCE between the 3 legs.. If it is a small transformer feeding just your house, that could be a problem.. If it is a larger transformer feeding several houses, probably not a problem... If it is 3 individual transformers feeding, not a problem.
 many small business in the US do similar, but have a 208 volt 3 phase supply... There are a lot of motors, large cooling units, pumps, hot water heaters that can run off 208 v 3 phase (or single phase).... and ANY one of the HOT leads to ground gives a 120 v power for the lights and plugs.... that is the purpose of starting with 208 v 3 phase ...no additional transformer to get 120v single phase.... but your BIGGER equip has to run off 208 and not 240v. If your chargers could run off 208v, this would be the way to go, as you also get 120v.  ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: tadams(OH)
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 2:35pm
| Well when no more gas is sold then no more money from gas taxes to repair the roads then what Uncle Joe's 3 Trillion dollar road repair bills will have to pass then we will all be broke. |
Posted By: Mikez
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 2:45pm
| also I wonder how it will work. Isn’t there still petroleum products in these cars and stuff. So when they put all the refineries out of business. How does that work |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 4:18pm
| Right now, all the examples of calculating costs, are gasoline including the highway tax, electrical costs without. When they slap a huge tax on what goes into your car for highway tax, will be yet another thing that’s not what it seems. |
Posted By: FREEDGUY
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 5:11pm
You are missing the point ENTIRELY !! It's a PROPULSION /TAILPIPE EMITTING/ POLLUTION issue !!! NONE of you "get-it" The "logic" of the former is beyond my comprehension
|
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 5:23pm
| No, truth is YOU don't get it, re-read these posts, you are clueless. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 8:02pm
------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 16 Oct 2021 at 8:15pm
|
Would say Good Luck to them, but hey, it IS Kalifornication, they can go play scramble awhile. AZ, NV and UT have all announced they will be selling LESS to KALI as they need that power in the home states. Fossil retirements are hitting ALL states pretty hard right now. https://dailyenergyinsider.com/news/28693-eia-report-says-9-1gw-of-electric-generating-capacity-will-be-retired-in-2021/#:~:text=A%20new%20report%20from%20the,scheduled%20to%20retire%20in%202021.&text=Also%2C%202.7%20GW%20of%20coal,of%20the%20U.S.%20coal%20fleet." rel="nofollow - EIA report says 9.1GW of electric generating capacity will be retired in 2021 - Daily Energy Insider https://www.visualcapitalist.com/road-to-decarbonization-u-s-coal-plant-closures/" rel="nofollow - Road to Decarbonization: U.S. Coal Plant Closures (visualcapitalist.com) Figuring that Coal will be gone by 2050 is a stretch, is reported that most utilities are set to close solid fuel Fossil by 2030, leaving Gas Turbines or Renewable(LOL) as sole energy providers. CNG will hit new strides in ramped up costs as import more now where cannot frack for existing US Supplies. |
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 6:04pm
|
Yep Diablo is in my back yard the taxes from that plant has kept this county in good shape. So they wined to the state and are getting 20 or 30 million to help easy the lose of taxes from power plant. But word is out the state is buying 3 natural gas power plants to be ready for the days the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow. But with the state running them you know the price goes up.
|
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 6:13pm
Since you get it why are driving a pickup, you need to ride a bicycle. There have been several big mouths politicians local that put their mouth on a bicycle to show us peed upon ones how. But somehow they faded away, back to just mouthy ones telling us rather than show us.
|
Posted By: Les Kerf
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 6:52pm
|
Green Energy is a pipedream of the scientifically ignorant and the mathematically inept. |
Posted By: NEVER green
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 7:08pm
And the intoxicated. ------------- 2-8050 1-7080 6080 D-19 modelE & A 7040 R50 |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 7:31pm
|
Buttgig did get on a bicycle a few times, as a staged event, had it unloaded from the SUV so could be seen 'Riding to Work' only to ride out and reload it some few blocks away and GOT CAUGHT. When the ELITE Politicians are in All Electric Vehicles, Selling off their HUGE, MULTIPLE Estates with houses large enough to accommodate four to five FAMILIES each then I would almost trust them, otherwise is all a Ruse upon the poor working slobs we are trying to squeeze another loose dime or two out of our pockets. Just remember Ms Pissy bragging about ALL Her Lovely Craft Made Ice Cream any time and flavor she wanted in her MULTIPLE Freezers in the Winery property in CA.
|
Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 17 Oct 2021 at 7:37pm
| Why do politicians pushing this pay the big ,big dollars for ocean front properties? If they will be underwater in 10 years. And about a million more questions about why they don't cut down their electric, and petroleum use. |
Posted By: Walker
Date Posted: 21 Oct 2021 at 7:49pm
|
If it was anything but BS they would be installing perpetual motion engines in cars instead of electric motors. |