This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity.
The Forum Parts and Services Unofficial Allis Store Tractor Shows Serial Numbers History
Forum Home Forum Home > Allis Chalmers > Construction and other equipment
  New Posts New Posts
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login


HD6G starter

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
doctorcorey View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
Points: 570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: HD6G starter
    Posted: 23 Aug 2023 at 4:12pm
I need to replace the tired starter on my 6G, converting to key switch type. The ones I see for sale all are the same file photo, with the solenoid positioned such that it would have to be mounted on the bottom, to fit into the bell housing/flywheel boss. I recall my 7G had the solenoid mounted on bottom.....is my memory correct? Aftermarket starters are in the 3-400$ range, and new Delco is 800+  I don't have much faith in the 'local' starter rebuilders, so I'd rather start with a new one.
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
Ian Beale View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Location: New South Wales
Points: 933
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ian Beale Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 5:52am
IIRC a Delco 42 lets you adjust the nose cone to point the solenoid where you need it.

No idea on the others
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 1784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 6:48am
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
Back to Top
doctorcorey View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
Points: 570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 10:19am
Thanks for the info. Any chance anyone knows the specific starter number in this 39 series that fits my 6000 engine HD6G? I'd always prefer a gear reduction starter because they are simply more efficient at converting electricity into rotational movement. Also considerably less expensive.  Mine is still positive ground with a working original generator.....any considerations there?
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 1784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 10:33am
It will fit a standard SAE mount which your's probably uses. Positive, or negative ground won't make any difference to the starter motor. What is important is the starter drive gear tooth count. Don't put a 10 tooth if the original is nine for instance.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
Back to Top
doctorcorey View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
Points: 570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 11:08am
This DB starter, 8200330 replacement appears to be the right setup. 39MT, 11 tooth, 24 v, rotatable flange CW rotation. Sound right?
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
Back to Top
doctorcorey View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
Points: 570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 11:09am
Originally posted by doctorcorey doctorcorey wrote:

This DB starter, 8200330 replacement appears to be the right setup. 39MT, 11 tooth, 24 v, rotatable flange CW rotation. Sound right?
  Rather, 'DSS' brand. Made in China no doubt, but most all are.
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 1784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Aug 2023 at 12:25pm
I've used DB Electrical many times  in the past. Never a problem with their products.

Don't know if the aftermarket offers it but the Delco starter has "soft start" built into it. This eases flywheel ring gear and starter drive teeth wear. I've installed a lot of them and never a problem but they are a bit on the expensive side compared to the aftermarket. 

Much of Delco manufacturing is in Mexico these days.


Edited by Codger - 24 Aug 2023 at 12:41pm
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
Back to Top
DMiller View Drop Down
Orange Level Access
Orange Level Access


Joined: 14 Sep 2009
Location: Hermann, Mo
Points: 29486
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DMiller Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2023 at 11:18am
Current HD Truck engine starters, 11T drives, are now gear reduction and use about half the juice to crank as the old 40 or 42MT starters.  Also about Half the weight of those old Iron Monsters.
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 1784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Aug 2023 at 11:50am
If yours is a 24VDC system now would be a good time to swap to 12VDC. With the starter you could also get a 10, or 20 SI series alternator and easily convert to 12V and lose one of the starting batteries.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
Back to Top
doctorcorey View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
Points: 570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2023 at 8:36am
Originally posted by Codger Codger wrote:

If yours is a 24VDC system now would be a good time to swap to 12VDC. With the starter you could also get a 10, or 20 SI series alternator and easily convert to 12V and lose one of the starting batteries.
Well, I've already ordered a starter 24v, plus, I'm so proud of that perfectly functioning generator on there.........Smile
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
Back to Top
Codger View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 23 Dec 2020
Location: Illinois
Points: 1784
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Aug 2023 at 8:56am
Nuthin wrong with 24VDC systems at all. With the cost of starting batteries these days many people would rather not replace two if they have the option of only one. I always replace all in a set so no matter to me.
A career built on repairing and improving engineering design deficiencies, shortcomings, and failures over 50 years now.
Back to Top
DieselBumpkin View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2022
Location: USA
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DieselBumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Aug 2023 at 8:58pm
I did my own research last year and bought a Delco-Remy 8200330 for my 6000 engine. I am glad to see that someone else came up with the same part number because I have a 6000 engine but no starter or adapter plate for it. I pulled the old starter off the HD344 (it's in bad shape) and took the plate off, looked through a ton of Delco-Remy and other brand products, and made some measurements. I don't remember what site it was that I ordered from as it looks like a company that operates multiple sites. The email and invoice mentioned Engine Parts Superstore, KALBRO, and Gomondial.

It came in right at $450 with FedEx ground shipping. Everything looks right, but I haven't turned the engine over yet, so don't take my word for it.
Back to Top
doctorcorey View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
Points: 570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2023 at 8:53am
Originally posted by DieselBumpkin DieselBumpkin wrote:

I did my own research last year and bought a Delco-Remy 8200330 for my 6000 engine. I am glad to see that someone else came up with the same part number because I have a 6000 engine but no starter or adapter plate for it. I pulled the old starter off the HD344 (it's in bad shape) and took the plate off, looked through a ton of Delco-Remy and other brand products, and made some measurements. I don't remember what site it was that I ordered from as it looks like a company that operates multiple sites. The email and invoice mentioned Engine Parts Superstore, KALBRO, and Gomondial.

It came in right at $450 with FedEx ground shipping. Everything looks right, but I haven't turned the engine over yet, so don't take my word for it.
   So, are you using it with, or without the factory adaptor plate? Mine hasn't arrived yet. I'm going to remove the inspection plate behind the starter drive, disable the motor section of the new starter, and test the engagement with the solenoid to verify the proper engagement with the flywheel gear. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
Back to Top
DieselBumpkin View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2022
Location: USA
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DieselBumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2023 at 4:20pm
I took the plate off the HD344 and cleaned it up. Be sure that you use the right length for the three capscrews because if you're half an inch too long, you will hit the flywheel. I bring this up because the flange on the new starter might not be the same thickness as what was on the old starter.

I'm going to do the same thing with engagement once I have the wiring straightened out. Having those teeth half-engaged would be bad news.
Back to Top
DieselBumpkin View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2022
Location: USA
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DieselBumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2023 at 4:36pm
Back to Top
DieselBumpkin View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2022
Location: USA
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DieselBumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2023 at 5:01pm
So to really answer your question on whether I used the plate, I'm not sure yet. If I did my homework right, I will be reusing it. If I didn't, I'll probably cut a new plate while the engine is on the stand and I have the tools right there to do it. I'm not going to use a stack of washers or turn standoffs because rats love nesting in the bell housing. Ask me how I know that.
Back to Top
DieselBumpkin View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2022
Location: USA
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DieselBumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2023 at 5:09pm
I did take a few pictures of the mess that the rats left in the HD344.




Back to Top
doctorcorey View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
Points: 570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Aug 2023 at 7:46pm
On second thought, it probably isn't that hard to compare the engagement depth by comparing the old 'iron log' Delco to the new GR starter. About the rats, I had 'em loaded up the steering clutch compartments and their urine is like epoxy. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
Back to Top
doctorcorey View Drop Down
Orange Level
Orange Level
Avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Location: S. KC Missouri
Points: 570
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doctorcorey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Sep 2023 at 9:54pm
Starter arrived today, and after a bit of head-scratching on it's wiring, I installed it, and it spins the old motor over like a top. It did require a dedicated ground cable to the large lug on the end of the starter, as it appears that these starters are not grounded through the case. It does have the 'soft-start' feature, and yes, I did have to use the factory spacer plate. 
Semper Fi USMC    1958 HD6G, 1959 MF 203 loader, 1960 Case 420B Backhoe, MF 65 Tractor/Loader Diesel
Back to Top
DieselBumpkin View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2022
Location: USA
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DieselBumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Sep 2023 at 11:09am
It's finally a cool day here today, so I might have to give this a shot myself.
Back to Top
DieselBumpkin View Drop Down
Bronze Level
Bronze Level
Avatar

Joined: 10 Nov 2022
Location: USA
Points: 33
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DieselBumpkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2023 at 8:53pm
I installed the starter on the 6000 and used the plate. This starter TURNS the engine with ease.

Since I have the engine on a stand, I didn't bother bonding the ground. I made new cables today using the AC parts book and was very pleased to see the lengths listed next to the part numbers. I am going to have to pull the ground strap off the dozer to get the length for that and see what diameter the stud is on the chassis side. I remember the strap being somewhere around 8 inches or a foot long.


Edited by DieselBumpkin - 08 Sep 2023 at 10:56pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.079 seconds.


Help Support the
Unofficial Allis Forum