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| Push rods got bent | 
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Topic: Push rods got bent Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 5:10am | 
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   My neighbor has a 175 Allis that had a water leak into the oil so he pulled the head off thinking it was the head gasket at fault. By the way it's a 226 gas engine. So he gets a new gasket and also has the head checked for cracks. Head is good so he puts it back together and cranks' it over and it bends four push rods!!!! What happened here? Valves are not stuck I tried them all. When he got the head back did he get the same one he took in? I don't know. Are there other heads that appear the same but differ in thickness? It appears to me that the rocker shaft pedestals are too short! Even with the adjusting screws backed all the way off you cannot tighten down the shaft without compressing the valve springs to the limit! Is there a spacer that fits between the head and the pedestals? Also what is the firing order of this engine? It seems weird to me 1243 is that right?
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| Charlie175   Orange Level   Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Shenandoah, VA Points: 6369 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 5:25am | 
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   I'm not aware that the head on the 175 was any different than a D17 series. Yes the Firing order is 1243 Are you sure you have the rods inserted fully? | |
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     Charlie  '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD | |
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 5:47am | 
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   Yes the push rods are in place correctly.
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| WF owner   Orange Level   Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5052 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 5:58am | 
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   Did they use the correct rocker arm "stands"? It sounds line they used the shorter stands when they rebuilt the head. The correct stand should be 1.945" high. Edited by WF owner - 20 Oct 2016 at 6:05am | |
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 6:47am | 
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   I'll check on the stands today!
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| Gary Burnett   Orange Level Access     Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 3099 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 7:13am | 
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   I'd double check the seating of the push rods,at any rate when I send a head,crank or anything to a shop I usually put some small mark  on it that can't easily be taken off or noticed.Learned to do that years ago when working in a auto salvage yard,people would buy a used motor and bring the bad one they took out and claim it was the engine we sold them. | |
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| Don(MO)   Orange Level   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Bates City MO. Points: 6862 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 8:03am | 
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   If all the work is done right like installing the push rods, not changing the rocker arm assy. then look at what was done to the head like did the shop install new valves and or seats, plane the head? I'm thinking the shop might have installed the seats to deep in the head and or might be the wrong valves.
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     3 WD45's with power steering,G,D15 fork lift,D19, W-Speed Patrol, "A" Gleaner with a 330 corn head,"66" combine,roto-baler, and lots of Snap Coupler implements to make them work for their keep. | |
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| Brian G.  NY   Orange Level     Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2269 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 8:59am | 
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   The push rods are the same length for either the short or the tall head. Therefore, the short head uses tall rocker stands and the tall head uses short stands. So, is it possible they could have given you a short head in place of the original tall head? Otherwise (unlikely), it would seem that the valve stem length is wrong or (even more unlikely) you installed longer push rods from some other engine. BTW, The short heads (used on the WCs and WDs prior to "engine" ser. #289001 are 3" thick and the tall heads used on later WD 201 engines and all the 226 engines measure 4" thick. | |
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 9:47am | 
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   Thanks Guys for the quick response as, of tomorrow I'll be going to have my hip replaced and will be laid up a while. Thanks again
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 10:14am | 
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   The measures 3 7/8" thick, the rocker arm pedestals measure just a hair over 1 15/16" . All new valves installed it appears as the stem ends show no signs of wear. Rocker arm assembly also appears all new as it is nice and shiney.
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| Brian G.  NY   Orange Level     Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2269 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 11:35am | 
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   Just curious....were the 4 bent push rods either all exhaust or all intake valves? Good luck on you hip; my son had a ceramic one installed a few years ago....what a relief after all the years of pain. Virtually none after the new hip. | |
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 12:07pm | 
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   Not sure which they were as I didn't take it apart. Thanks for the good wishes.
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 12:13pm | 
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   With out taking the head off does anyone know what the valve height would be measuring from the spring seat on  the head to the end of the stem would be?
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| Leon n/c AR.   Bronze Level     Joined: 19 Mar 2013 Location: Heber Springs A Points: 175 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 3:59pm | 
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   Did he adjust the valves to correct clearance when reassembling.  Leon
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| Bill_MN   Orange Level     Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Points: 1471 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 4:42pm | 
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   So.....are there marks on the pistons from valves hitting? Only way to bend push rods if valves aren't stuck is for valves to hit piston or springs to bottom out, not sure what will happen first but if valve stems are too long you will definitely have that problem. Were rocker arms disassembled from shaft? Did they get flipped upside down or backwards? | |
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     1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow | |
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| Brian G.  NY   Orange Level     Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2269 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 4:51pm | 
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   I hope you find out what happened and post your results. Edited by Brian G. NY - 20 Oct 2016 at 8:40pm | |
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| Dick L   Orange Level     Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Edon Ohio Points: 5093 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 20 Oct 2016 at 6:00pm | 
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   I take it turning the engine over by hand to watch and check what was going on was not part of the process! 
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 5:19am | 
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   Originally he cranked it over with the starter. Since I've been helping out we've turned it by the pto shaft. While doing that the springs are bottoming out it appears. I think the valves are too long. Can't tell if there are any marks on the pistons as we have not taken the head off. The rockers are all right and were not disassembled. I looked at a couple of D17s yesterday and they measured the same as the 175.  Once I get back on my feet I'll dig into it more. What is the length of the proper valves? Today I go for hip replacement so I,m out of commission till then.  Thanks much guys. | |
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| DrAllis   Orange Level Access   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22140 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 6:33am | 
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   Are you sure you don't have the rocker arm supports flipped upside down?? This is silly. Something that should have taken 3 to 4 hrs to do has turned into a nitemare.
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| SteveM C/IL   Orange Level Access   Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8678 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 12:44pm | 
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   Something is really screwie here! If I remember I'll take a rough measure of the E head up at the shop...(valve tip height)
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| Bill_MN   Orange Level     Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Points: 1471 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 3:01pm | 
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   I think it would be difficult to get all wrong sizes on the valves. To have a valve with too long a stem but exactly the right dimensions otherwise, then to have springs that are also that much too tall seems like a large coincidence. There could be a bad vendor out there selling the wrong set, wonder if anyone else has had this problem? | |
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     1951 WD #78283, 1918 Case 28x50 Thresher #76738, Case Centennial B 2x16 Plow | |
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| Dan73   Orange Level     Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Location: United States Points: 6054 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 21 Oct 2016 at 4:55pm | 
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   Do you or the shop still have the old valves and other parts for the head?  It would help to double check the parts against the new parts.  I am thinking that the rods where not seated right when the head was put back on the motor.
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 8:20am | 
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   The push rods fit in a hole in the lifters so you can feel if they are in place or not. I just gat out of the hospital so won't be going outside for awhile. Once I get the head off I can check a few other things. | |
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| AaronSEIA   Orange Level   Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Mt Pleasant, IA Points: 2573 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:30am | 
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   Is it even possible to have the rods not seated properly and have the valve train go together?   AaronSEIA | |
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| Dan73   Orange Level     Joined: 04 Jun 2015 Location: United States Points: 6054 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 23 Oct 2016 at 9:39am | 
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   When I put my d15 together I got one of the rods jammed up off to the side when I put it in felt funny so I asked the mechanic who I hired and was helping.  It looks right at the top but was not seated right.  I have no idea if you could have actually got the valve train together just thought it was worth mentioning that they can drop in and jam up.
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| THEFOX   Bronze Level   Joined: 02 Sep 2016 Location: DULUTH MN Points: 31 |  Post Options  Thanks(0)  Quote  Reply  Posted: 02 Dec 2016 at 2:58pm | 
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   I replied on a new post as I couldn't find this one.
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