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Fun Project; Need Some Help |
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 6109 |
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Topic: Fun Project; Need Some HelpPosted: 23 Sep 2024 at 2:12pm |
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So Derrek- When you're working with D17's, if you ever find yourself in a situation where it seems to want to start, but not run, or it cranks, but won't fire, but when you release the key, it either starts, or farts... Put a jumper wire from the battery, direct to the ignition coil's + side, and try again. If it starts and runs, you've got a bad ignition switch. The cylinder wears, and START terminal wears/corrodes over time and use... eventually, when you turn the key to START, the contacts to the STARTER work, but the IGNITION contact lifts away, so you don't get spark while cranking. Bypass the switch, and it'll work fine. A troubleshooting technique you should learn and perfect: Isolating ignition or fuel problems. To check ignition for basic operation: Disconnect the center (coil) wire at the distributor. Place it about a quarter-inch from the engine block, and turn the key, watch that gap- you SHOULD see a SNAP SNAP SNAP as the engine cranks. IF it doesn't snap, you have either a keyswitch, wiring, ignition points, or condenser problem. Connecting a voltmeter or test light between the coil + post and ground should indicate battery voltage with ignition on. When cranking, you'll see this vary as the engine rotates (the points are opening and closing). If you have a good solid snap, but no start, reconnect the wiring, and shoot a shot of something flammable into the carbeurator, then crank. If it pops, or tries to start, you have a fuel problem. D17 ignition system consists of contact points operated by a lobe on the distributor body. The most COMMON ignition problem of the D17, is wear of the distributor's shaft bushings, and when they wear, the breaker point cam doesn't operate the contact points so well... you get dropped cylinders/missing etc, and general naughty behaviour. Best way to immediately resolve this, is to have a spare rebuilt distributor, particularly one with a Pertronix Ignitor electronic conversion in it. Get with NJ Steve, he can probably get you one for your ready shelf. When you go to tear down one for a resto, send your old one in for a thorough rehab. Old battery cables suck. They suck water in, via capillary action... and you wind up with all those fine copper threads turning into pretty blue-green fuzz that doesn't carry electricity worth $#!t... so they crank slow, don't fire plugs, and are a general nuisance. When you do your resto, investo in a starter rebuild, new cables, and a new wiring harness, it'll be so much happier.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 6109 |
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Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 1:59pm |
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Hee hee... I see what Doc saw! ;-) Anybody else notice it??
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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DrAllis
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 22324 |
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Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 4:39pm |
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That tractor has had a Gleaner model "E" engine installed into it.
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 3:46pm |
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Getting to the fun part!
Series III is getting a new shine. I do understand this isn't a proper restoration, but for my intentions I'm happy to see it running and looking better. ![]() ![]() |
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jvin248
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Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Detroit Points: 498 |
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Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 8:13pm |
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. Before you do a full carb rebuild, get a harbor freight ultrasonic cleaner. I had a Ferguson 35 that had carb problems, did a rebuild and several manual cleanings and nothing worked. So yesterday I bought the smaller unit HF sells and it fit both halves of the carb plus a little mesh box for the small parts. A few cycles and installed it back on the tractor and fixed it. Works perfect again. So today I pulled my WD carb, since it hasn't run in a year due to a wiring repair I'm about to do on it, and am putting that in the machine for a few cycles to avoid any surprises when I get it ready to run again. .
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 8:35am |
Great question... Series III: I had tried turning it over and it was barely turning, I didn't want to push it. Mechanic found that one of the battery cables was bad, so he replaced it and it fired right up. Has been running great ever since. Series IV: First, the points needed to be shaved and reset to get spark. Then, the fuel lines to the carb were clogged and needed to be blown out. Lastly, the carburetor itself is gummed up and needs a rebuild (ordered the kit, he'll be back to do the rebuild). He got it running by bypassing the carburetor to narrow down that as the problem. Overall, it was all the things you all mentioned it would be but I just needed someone with the experience to troubleshoot it. I'm thrilled with all the help I've gotten on here and that they will have new life!! |
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 8:32am |
Thank you so much!!
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Ted J
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Joined: 05 Jul 2010 Location: La Crosse, WI Points: 18943 |
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Posted: 10 Sep 2024 at 10:56pm |
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Tell us what the mechanic found. What was wrong?
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"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17 |
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5092 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 2:06pm |
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It is nice to see some young people with an AC interest!!!
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tadams(OH)
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Joined: 17 Sep 2009 Location: Jeromesville, O Points: 11173 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 2:03pm |
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Sounds great, as Steve said that smile looks great
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 12045 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 1:24pm |
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Looks like there's a big smile embedded in yer' face! Might need surgery to remove it! Enjoy your Tractors man. There's nothin' like it....... ![]() Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 12:35pm |
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Here's the video of the first drive of the Series III D17 in at least 12 years!
(Click to watch the video)
Edited by Derricks - 09 Sep 2024 at 12:36pm |
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5092 |
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Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 6:02am |
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Keep us updated!
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CA13414
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Joined: 25 Feb 2024 Location: Nebraska Points: 384 |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2024 at 9:21pm |
That is awesome and indeed, a great moment to drive your tractors again!! Congrats! |
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Helping the aged survive and thrive! 1953 CA
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2024 at 7:19pm |
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UPDATE: Hired a mechanic to come out and he got both tractors running!
The Series III is running like a top, took her for a ride! The Seriee IV ran but needs a carb rebuild. I’m thrilled and very thankful for all of your advice and help! What a cool moment today to drive my childhood tractors for the first time in 15 years. Thank you all again. I’ll probably post more updates here as I slowly restore them. |
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Steve in NJ
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Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Andover, NJ Points: 12045 |
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Posted: 08 Sep 2024 at 8:50am |
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One thing I forgot to mention. You're fortunate that you have two of the same Tractor. I would start to tear one down first. As the project and time moves on, when it comes to reassembly time, if you're not sure how something went together, you always have the other Tractor to look at. That's worth a million questions in itself. Good luck! A lot of great info here from the family! Steve@B&B bb-customcircuits.com
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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steve(ill)
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 89291 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2024 at 2:04pm |
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make sure the point is FILED GOOD... that is normaly what happens when setting for 10 years..... If its not that, then check for voltage ( 12v) at the coil.. If you have that, possibly the coil or condenser next to the point died out..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 07 Sep 2024 at 1:44pm |
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UPDATE: Not much progress.
Focusing on Series IV. Turns over but no spark. Replaced spark plugs. Filed points inside distributor. Replaced solenoid. Turning over but no spark and not firing. Where do I look next? |
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5092 |
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Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 11:52am |
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The first thing I would do is open the distributor cap. Borrow an emery board (for nails) from your wife and LIGHTLY clean the contacts on the points. Make sure the points are opening and gapped to .020.
Once you get spark, take the air filter hose off the carburetor and a little starting fluid in the carburetor and see if it fires.
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 11:12am |
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UPDATE: I have tried firing both of the D17s...
All of the fluids looked great. Oil was perfect. The Series III needed coolant topped off. Fuel tanks were both totally empty. I cleaned the fuel sediment filters. Changed out new spark plugs. Both tractors are turning over but not sparking or firing. Next step look into the carbs? Thank you for your help, everybody. It means a lot. |
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WF owner
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Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 5092 |
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Posted: 15 Aug 2024 at 4:38am |
How do you hand crank a D-17 Series 3 or 4?
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 11:01pm |
Absolutely awesome advice; thank you so much! I'm taking this all in and am definitely going to be using this. You're awesome. |
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jvin248
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Joined: 17 Jan 2022 Location: Detroit Points: 498 |
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Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 10:48pm |
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. I would start your project by manually rotating the engines, not a battery and starter. Pull on the fan belt or turn the engine with a crank. That way you don't bend something. Watch YouTube videos on Vice Grip Garage, like these. Derek goes through the steps you'll need, and tools that are helpful. https://youtu.be/Q4W9TWrwnh0?si=MOBrZ3VDqe2yQGt9 Edited by jvin248 - 14 Aug 2024 at 10:51pm |
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DaveKamp
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Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 6109 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2024 at 11:07pm |
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I always check the fluid level and conditions before anything else.... then I attempt to turn them over by hand. Put the transmission in neutral, and attempt to depress the clutch, take note of how it feels underfoot, as this may give you a clue as to wether the plates are rust-adhered to the flywheel. As others noted, these things can have seals dry and leak, don't assume there's fluid IN, and next... condensate and rain can get IN, so don't assume that what's IN there... is actually what you WANT in there. As Doc noted, coolant in the oilpan is a bad sign, but it's not end-of-the-world. Since these tractors are members of your family, your greatest investment will be TIME. If you throw out TIME as a cost (which you should), then it just comes down to parts and materials. Don't predispose yourself to acquiring only new parts, and don't dismiss a component simply because it isn't 'like new'... there's plenty of circumstances where a part has degraded, but can be returned to serviceable condition without considerable difficulty or expense. Other things: Don't assume the exhaust isn't full of bird droppings. Don't assume the brake/axle housings aren't full of beech nuts. Don't assume the wiring has any insulation, and yes, there will be mouse nests... and they do ignite FAST... Don't assume the gasoline is actually gasoline Don't assume anything liquid will actually flow through anything tubular. Don't assume that something that seals at room temperature under workshop conditions will also seal when the engine is running, and the transmission is working... Don't assume that a 'brand new part' will be better than an old one (breaker points and condenser especially) Finally... With this being your first, get them both checked out, fired up, and running, and as operational as you can... then pick ONE to use, and the OTHER to work on. Pick the best tires, move them to the worker... and shop the project. Do all your project mechanical work in SEGMENTS... one segment at-a-time. As you do it, each segment gets you closer to a well-finished machine. There's segments and processes that will make you feel defeated at times... all the parts that you've succeeded, will bring you confidence that the BAD DAYS are winnable too. As for tractor restorations, an old friend told me that the most suitable restoration candidate has either a good engine, or good tires... a REALLY EASY one has both. His point was, that an engine rebuild kit-and-process is expensive... and wheels-and-tires are expensive too. They're not impossible, they're just big investments. Fortunately, when you do 'em, they're done, and last a LONG time. |
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2024 at 10:19pm |
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Update...
As recommended, I purchased the User Manual for both the Series III and Series IV on eBay and am waiting for it to arrive to really familiarize myself with the ins-and-outs of these tractors. I'll then purchase fluids and filters, batteries, and 'hopefully' get them fired up so I can assess where they're at! |
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 13 Aug 2024 at 10:12pm |
Uh oh! haha thanks for the heads up.
Thank you for the warm welcome! Hope your project is coming along how you're hoping for it to! |
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Boss Man
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Joined: 03 Mar 2018 Location: Greenleaf, WI Points: 617 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 8:34pm |
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Nothing like the feeling of cleaning the carb, draining the gas tank, adding fresh gas, cleaning the points and bringing an old tractor back to life. Often you can put tension on the fan belt with on hand and pull the fan with the other to see if the motor turns. Or pull the starter and use a screw driver or pry bar to turn the motor before investing in a battery. As someone else said there's probably tractor enthusiast in your area willing to help and guide you in person. Doesnt hurt to attend a few tractor shows and talk to people displaying tractors.
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CA13414
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Joined: 25 Feb 2024 Location: Nebraska Points: 384 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 7:08pm |
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Welcome to the forum. It is a great place where there is a ton of expertise and wisdom!!
I joined in February and it has a blast these past months working on our family CA. My wife jokingly refer's to being a "Tractor Widow!" Which has happened often with my various projects over the years. Anyway, you will find the group here spectacular! Enjoy! Edited by CA13414 - 11 Aug 2024 at 8:55pm |
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Helping the aged survive and thrive! 1953 CA
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 6:36pm |
This is gold; thank you so much! Epic stuff.
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Derricks
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Joined: 10 Aug 2024 Location: Wisconsin Points: 30 |
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Posted: 11 Aug 2024 at 6:35pm |
I love that dedication, man! I bet it's worth it.
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