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Fun Project; Need Some Help

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Derricks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Aug 2024 at 11:01pm
Originally posted by DaveKamp DaveKamp wrote:

Other things:
Don't assume the exhaust isn't full of bird droppings.
Don't assume the brake/axle housings aren't full of beech nuts.
Don't assume the wiring has any insulation, and yes, there will be mouse nests... and they do ignite FAST...
Don't assume the gasoline is actually gasoline
Don't assume anything liquid will actually flow through anything tubular.
Don't assume that something that seals at room temperature under workshop conditions will also seal when the engine is running, and the transmission is working...
Don't assume that a 'brand new part' will be better than an old one (breaker points and condenser especially)

Finally...  With this being your first, get them both checked out, fired up, and running, and as operational as you can... then pick ONE to use, and the OTHER to work on.  Pick the best tires, move them to the worker... and shop the project. 

Do all your project mechanical work in SEGMENTS... one segment at-a-time. As you do it, each segment gets you closer to a well-finished machine.  There's segments and processes that will make you feel defeated at times... all the parts that you've succeeded, will bring you confidence that the BAD DAYS are winnable too.



Absolutely awesome advice; thank you so much! I'm taking this all in and am definitely going to be using this. You're awesome. 
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WF owner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Aug 2024 at 4:38am
Originally posted by jvin248 jvin248 wrote:

.

I would start your project by manually rotating the engines, not a battery and starter. Pull on the fan belt or turn the engine with a crank. That way you don't bend something.


How do you hand crank a D-17 Series 3 or 4?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 11:12am
UPDATE: I have tried firing both of the D17s... 

All of the fluids looked great. Oil was perfect. The Series III needed coolant topped off. Fuel tanks were both totally empty. 

I cleaned the fuel sediment filters. 

Changed out new spark plugs. 

Both tractors are turning over but not sparking or firing. 

Next step look into the carbs? 

Thank you for your help, everybody. It means a lot. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Aug 2024 at 11:52am
The first thing I would do is open the distributor cap. Borrow an emery board (for nails) from your wife and LIGHTLY clean the contacts on the points. Make sure the points are opening and gapped to .020.

Once you get spark, take the air filter hose off the carburetor and a little starting fluid in the carburetor and see if it fires.
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Derricks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2024 at 1:44pm
UPDATE: Not much progress.

Focusing on Series IV.

Turns over but no spark.

Replaced spark plugs.

Filed points inside distributor.

Replaced solenoid.

Turning over but no spark and not firing.

Where do I look next?
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Sep 2024 at 2:04pm
make sure the point is FILED GOOD... that is normaly what happens when setting for 10 years..... If its not that, then check for voltage ( 12v) at the coil.. If you have that, possibly the coil or condenser next to the point died out..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2024 at 8:50am
One thing I forgot to mention. You're fortunate that you have two of the same Tractor. I would start to tear one down first. As the project and time moves on, when it comes to reassembly time, if you're not sure how something went together, you always have the other Tractor to look at. That's worth a million questions in itself. Good luck! A lot of great info here from the family!
Steve@B&B
bb-customcircuits.com
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Derricks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2024 at 7:19pm
UPDATE: Hired a mechanic to come out and he got both tractors running!

The Series III is running like a top, took her for a ride!

The Seriee IV ran but needs a carb rebuild.

I’m thrilled and very thankful for all of your advice and help!

What a cool moment today to drive my childhood tractors for the first time in 15 years.

Thank you all again.

I’ll probably post more updates here as I slowly restore them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CA13414 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Sep 2024 at 9:21pm
Originally posted by Derricks Derricks wrote:

UPDATE: Hired a mechanic to come out and he got both tractors running!

The Series III is running like a top, took her for a ride!

The Seriee IV ran but needs a carb rebuild.

I’m thrilled and very thankful for all of your advice and help!

What a cool moment today to drive my childhood tractors for the first time in 15 years.

Thank you all again.

I’ll probably post more updates here as I slowly restore them.


That is awesome and indeed, a great moment to drive your tractors again!! Congrats!

Helping the aged survive and thrive! 1953 CA
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 6:02am
Keep us updated!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 12:35pm
Here's the video of the first drive of the Series III D17 in at least 12 years!

(Click to watch the video) 


Edited by Derricks - 09 Sep 2024 at 12:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 1:24pm
Looks like there's a big smile embedded in yer' face!  Might need surgery to remove it! Enjoy your Tractors man. There's nothin' like it.......  Clap Thumbs Up
Steve@B&B
39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tadams(OH) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 2:03pm
Sounds great, as Steve said that smile looks great
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Sep 2024 at 2:06pm
It is nice to see some young people with an AC interest!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ted J Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Sep 2024 at 10:56pm
Tell us what the mechanic found.  What was wrong?
"Allis-Express"
19?? WC / 1941 C / 1952 CA / 1956 WD45 / 1957 WD45 / 1958 D-17
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Derricks View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 8:32am
Originally posted by Steve in NJ Steve in NJ wrote:

Looks like there's a big smile embedded in yer' face!  Might need surgery to remove it! Enjoy your Tractors man. There's nothin' like it.......  Clap Thumbs Up
Steve@B&B

Thank you so much!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 8:35am
Originally posted by Ted J Ted J wrote:

Tell us what the mechanic found.  What was wrong?

Great question...

Series III: 

I had tried turning it over and it was barely turning, I didn't want to push it. 

Mechanic found that one of the battery cables was bad, so he replaced it and it fired right up. Has been running great ever since. 

Series IV: 

First, the points needed to be shaved and reset to get spark. 

Then, the fuel lines to the carb were clogged and needed to be blown out. 

Lastly, the carburetor itself is gummed up and needs a rebuild (ordered the kit, he'll be back to do the rebuild). 

He got it running by bypassing the carburetor to narrow down that as the problem. 



Overall, it was all the things you all mentioned it would be but I just needed someone with the experience to troubleshoot it. 

I'm thrilled with all the help I've gotten on here and that they will have new life!! 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jvin248 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Sep 2024 at 8:13pm
.

Before you do a full carb rebuild, get a harbor freight ultrasonic cleaner.

I had a Ferguson 35 that had carb problems, did a rebuild and several manual cleanings and nothing worked. So yesterday I bought the smaller unit HF sells and it fit both halves of the carb plus a little mesh box for the small parts. A few cycles and installed it back on the tractor and fixed it. Works perfect again.

So today I pulled my WD carb, since it hasn't run in a year due to a wiring repair I'm about to do on it, and am putting that in the machine for a few cycles to avoid any surprises when I get it ready to run again.

.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Derricks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 3:46pm
Getting to the fun part! 

Series III is getting a new shine. 

I do understand this isn't a proper restoration, but for my intentions I'm happy to see it running and looking better. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Sep 2024 at 4:39pm
That tractor has had a Gleaner model "E" engine installed into it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 1:59pm
Hee hee... I see what Doc saw!  ;-)  Anybody else notice it??
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaveKamp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Sep 2024 at 2:12pm
So Derrek-

When you're working with D17's, if you ever find yourself in a situation where it seems to want to start, but not run, or it cranks, but won't fire, but when you release the key, it either starts, or farts...

Put a jumper wire from the battery, direct to the ignition coil's + side, and try again.  If it starts and runs, you've got a bad ignition switch.  The cylinder wears, and START terminal wears/corrodes over time and use... eventually, when you turn the key to START, the contacts to the STARTER work, but the IGNITION contact lifts away, so you don't get spark while cranking.  Bypass the switch, and it'll work fine.

A troubleshooting technique you should learn and perfect:  Isolating ignition or fuel problems.

To check ignition for basic operation:  Disconnect the center (coil) wire at the distributor.

Place it about a quarter-inch from the engine block, and turn the key, watch that gap- you SHOULD see a SNAP SNAP SNAP as the engine cranks.  IF it doesn't snap, you have either a keyswitch, wiring, ignition points, or condenser problem.  Connecting a voltmeter or test light between the coil + post and ground should indicate battery voltage with ignition on.  When cranking, you'll see this vary as the engine rotates (the points are opening and closing).

If you have a good solid snap, but no start, reconnect the wiring, and shoot a shot of something flammable into the carbeurator, then crank.  If it pops, or tries to start, you have a fuel problem.

D17 ignition system consists of contact points operated by a lobe on the distributor body.  The most COMMON ignition problem of the D17, is wear of the distributor's shaft bushings, and when they wear, the breaker point cam doesn't operate the contact points so well... you get dropped cylinders/missing etc, and general naughty behaviour.  Best way to immediately resolve this, is to have a spare rebuilt distributor, particularly one with a Pertronix Ignitor electronic conversion in it.  Get with NJ Steve, he can probably get you one for your ready shelf.  When you go to tear down one for a resto, send your old one in for a thorough rehab.

Old battery cables suck.  They suck water in, via capillary action... and you wind up with all those fine copper threads turning into pretty blue-green fuzz that doesn't carry electricity worth $#!t... so they crank slow, don't fire plugs, and are a general nuisance.  When you do your resto, investo in a starter rebuild, new cables, and a new wiring harness, it'll be so much happier.
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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