| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
calico190xt68 
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: 500 Loader Lift and Tilt Seal Replacement
Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 11:05am |
Bought new seal kits from A&W to fix all of my cylinders. I have not done this before so I am looking for advice. A&W did send me a picture of a special tool that helps remove the cylinder but I can't envision it's use until I dig into it. It appears I have to make one like they have unless someone has another suggestion? Here is what it looks like.
Any help and guidance on the steps to disassemble would be greatly appreciated.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
 |
|
Sponsored Links
|
|
|
DSeries4
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Sep 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Points: 7204
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 2:45pm |
|
If you have never done it before, just take the cylinders to a local hydraulic shop. They have the tools and experience to do the job properly and will stand behind their work.
|
|
'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 3:17pm |
I understand the value of using a professional and know that is the safe thing to do, but I saw this as an opportunity to learn how to do it.
I have had cylinders fail on my equipment and waited days to a week or more to get them rebuilt. I thought since this wasn't an emergency, I could take my time and not be pressed. I do realize not every cylinder is built the same nor the process the same but this would give me start.
I also thought these cylinders might be easier to work on since they are older and possibly simpler. So I am not just being cheap in trying to save $200 per cylinder but trying to learn. If the tool to do this becomes a problem, then I may have to punt and go to a professional.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77742
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 6:00pm |
|
like you say, its not Rocket Science..... THe big thing is being able to unscrew the head off the cylinder to pull the rod and piston out... then having the right size socket to get the piston off the rod ( depending on cylinder design).... Im not familiar with that cylinder, but look at the HEAD where the rod comes out of the barrel and see how it unscrews.
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
HudCo
Orange Level
Joined: 29 Jan 2013
Location: Plymouth Utah
Points: 3284
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 9:44pm |
|
are they the ones that have the lock ring or wire that turns out by turning the cap
|
|
MACK
Orange Level
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 01 Feb 2023 at 9:46pm |
|
A hammer and punch can be used in place of special tool. Once started to turn, it should turn easy. Tool could be easily made by welding two pins in a piece of flat metal. MACK
|
|
SteveMaskey(MO)
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Wellsville, MO
Points: 589
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 10:03am |
 Here is one I made and one I bought. Unscrew
the cap where the shaft comes out and pull rod out. There will be a plug with
Orings and backups then on the end of shaft is the piston with cup seals. Pretty
straight forward just remember where everything goes when you take it apart
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 12:29pm |
|
Thanks everybody for the additional direction and tool picture. I thought I would tackle one of the tilt cylinders first since they are smaller. My seal kits should be showing up by Friday. I haven't envisioned everything yet so may have some more questions. Once I dig into it, it may be more obvious.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77742
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 12:50pm |
this guy is rebuilding a cylinder ( not Allis) that has a head similar to yours and shows how to use the tools.... general idea..
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 1:42pm |
After watching the video, I understand better now how the spanner wrench is used. So big thanks on that!
Will it really take that much force to remove the cylinder from the outside casing? Looks like he was fixing a much bigger cylinder so not sure I will encounter the same pressure. If it takes a bunch of pressure like that, I may have to work on my setup.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
MACK
Orange Level
Joined: 17 Nov 2009
Points: 7664
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 8:37pm |
|
If you have a snap ring inside, grind burs from snap ring Grove. Don't clamp barrel of cylinder in vice over piston. Most don't pull that hard unless barrel has been mashed or dented. MACK
|
|
steve fischer
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Location: sleepy eye mn
Points: 927
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 9:09pm |
have rebuilt lots of them for the 400 and 500 loaders can do in 15 min if they come apart and i do have the allis tool to do them do not miss up the piston halves they are matched sets also have been using a quad ring for the rod seal ,number 222 ,work better then the oring on rod would not use a hammer and screw driver you will damage the thread inside the tube also i loosen the cap nut before i take cylinder off of loader ,the loader holds it solid to get the end cap lose
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77742
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 9:16pm |
|
like Steve mentioned, loosen the head while on the tractor... I have done several loader / backhoe cylinders by pulling the rod pin at the end, unscrew the cylinder head, and pulling the rod and head out of the barrel and leave barrel on the tractor, hoses still connected.... take the rod and head to the shop for repairs..
Edited by steve(ill) - 02 Feb 2023 at 9:17pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
steve fischer
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Location: sleepy eye mn
Points: 927
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 02 Feb 2023 at 9:22pm |
|
I also leave barrel on loader do not have to take hoses off ,watch the flood have pail ready
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 10:02am |
 steve fischer wrote:
have rebuilt lots of them for the 400 and 500 loaders can do in 15 min if they come apart and i do have the allis tool to do them do not miss up the piston halves they are matched sets also have been using a quad ring for the rod seal ,number 222 ,work better then the oring on rod would not use a hammer and screw driver you will damage the thread inside the tube also i loosen the cap nut before i take cylinder off of loader ,the loader holds it solid to get the end cap lose |
I thought leaving the barrel installed on the tractor would avoid the
vice issue so glad to get that confirmed. I have a spanner wrench tool
on order that I think will work. Didn't get it from Allis though so
will see. I don't have the seal kit yet but are you suggesting replacing the orings with a number 222 quad ring? Where do I get that? Never done this so don't know much about the parts options. I was going to do one cylinder at a time so that should avoid getting piston halves mixed up unless the piston half is on the same cylinder? Does it make sense to position the cylinders with the piston all the way extracted when leaving it on the tractor or does it matter? Thanks for the details and sorry for not comprehending everything.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
steve(ill)
Orange Level Access
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: illinois
Points: 77742
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 12:15pm |
i have not done this Particular cylinder... but MOST of the pistons on the end of the shaft are two halves... You take the NUT off the end of the shaft and pull off both halves of the piston... the seals are sandwiched inbetween the halves.. thats how you get them on.. So there is one half that faces toward the front of the shaft, and one that faces the BIG NUT.
Yes... i would help to park with the cylinder extended and the piston up toward the HEAD end.. Then when you pull it out, there is not much oil setting on TOP of the piston.. if the cylinder is pointed DOWN, there will be oil BEHIND the piston after you pull the rod out.
look at the above youtube movie at the 9:00 minute mark and you can see the guy pull the piston halves apart to install the new seals.
Edited by steve(ill) - 03 Feb 2023 at 12:18pm
|
|
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 12:27pm |
|
Thanks Steve, that helps me understand. Thanks for the additional advice.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
Gary
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
Points: 5171
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 1:33pm |
Here is a Link showing the Seal Kit required to repair one 400 / 500 Series Ram. You will find that most of the Video mentioned and shown earlier is quite different from your Ram. The retaining nut at the top of the cylinder and removed with the Special Tool, is very small - about the size of a pair of 'press in' seals. The upper shaft Bearing has 2 'O' Ringss, a small inner O Ring to seal against the shaft, and a larger outer O Ring to seal the Bearing to the outer cylinder. The remainder of the Seals ( including the Chevron Set) get assembled to the lower end of the Shaft. I strongly recommend you take pictures as you disassemble the old components and lay them out in order as you disassemble them. Gary https://www.ebay.com/itm/225264541591
|
|
Michael Crowe
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Kansas City
Points: 1712
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 2:40pm |
I just replaced the seals on my tilt cylinders yesterday, and plan to do the lift ones tonight. Here is a picture of the tool I used. I bought one like the one pictured on the right in the prior post but it was not big enough. I could have made it work, but found this other one. I worked great. Very easy to do once you get the nut loose.
I went ahead and removed the barrel portion of the cylinder so I could clean it out. I plan to keep the tractor for a long time, so I figured it best to clean it out while i was this far into it.
Edited by Michael Crowe - 03 Feb 2023 at 2:44pm
|
|
The 14th Annual Exclusive AC Swap Meet will be held in Boonville, MO, March 7-8, 2025. See the club website for details: http://www.moacclub.com/
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 3:45pm |
Gary wrote:
Here is a Link showing the Seal Kit required to repair one 400 / 500 Series Ram.
You will find that most of the Video mentioned and shown earlier is quite different from your Ram.
The retaining nut at the top of the cylinder and removed with the Special Tool, is very small - about the size of a pair of 'press in' seals.
The upper shaft Bearing has 2 'O' Ringss, a small inner O Ring to seal against the shaft, and a larger outer O Ring to seal the Bearing to the outer cylinder.
The remainder of the Seals ( including the Chevron Set) get assembled to the lower end of the Shaft.
I strongly recommend you take pictures as you disassemble the old components and lay them out in order as you disassemble them.
Gary
https://www.ebay.com/itm/225264541591
|
Thanks for the info. Every response is making it clearer. That kit is the one I bought and from A&W tractor so that picture should be what I am getting. I will definitely take a picture as I disassemble. I may not get to it for another week as I am waiting on everything to arrive.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 3:47pm |
|
Good to know. How did you clean it out? I might do that after I get the barrel nut loose.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
Gary
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
Points: 5171
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 7:11pm |
|
I secured a rag to a Broom Handle with fine wire to wipe the inside.
G
|
|
steve fischer
Orange Level
Joined: 11 Jul 2011
Location: sleepy eye mn
Points: 927
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 03 Feb 2023 at 8:00pm |
rod does not have nut on it , you take off the wear ring to get to the halves ,they are in a grove in shaft , next take off seal stack and them second wear ring and halves in second rod grove ,then you can take the other end out to install wiper , outer and inner orings , the inner is the one I use the quad ring and i install the back up to take up space flat side to quad
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 6:31am |
|
If there is no nut, how do you separate the two halves? Is that what the tool I pictured first from a&w is for?
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
Gary
Orange Level Access
Joined: 13 Sep 2009
Location: Peterborough,On
Points: 5171
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 6:46am |
|
The 2 Piston halves are simply held together around the Shaft by the 2 wear strips near each end and the Chevron Seals assembled in the middle.
The Bearing (with the 2 O Rings and 'O Ring Back-up) sits in the end of the open cylinder up against a machined recess, and held in place by that small nut.
G
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 7:28am |
|
I haven't dug into it yet but that is not intuitive on how the two halves stay together without coming apart without a nut? Thanks for clarifying that though. I looked at the parts diagram on agco and there is definitely no nut pictured.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 11:21am |
Here is a picture of one of the lift cylinders. The others look the same. Those slots don't look right to me though and almost like it is chipped? Do I have a bigger problem? Slot looks a little longer than I expected. I noticed there are some really small slots that look factory made and maybe that is where the spanner wrench goes?
Thanks for any insight.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 11:34am |
This is the other lift cylinder. Has the same long slot but looks broke to me.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
Jim.ME
Orange Level
Joined: 19 Nov 2016
Location: Maine
Points: 934
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 11:35am |
|
The "ears" on the spanner tool A&W sent you a picture of would appear to closely match the slots in the gland locking ring (nut) in your cylinder picture. They look like they were turned out by being driven with a punch or screwdriver tip at some time in their life.
Edited by Jim.ME - 04 Feb 2023 at 11:37am
|
|
calico190xt68
Orange Level
Joined: 12 Jan 2017
Location: Frankton, IN
Points: 729
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: 04 Feb 2023 at 2:30pm |
|
Thanks and that makes sense. I was afraid they were broke so good to know. I am waiting on my spanner tool. That's why you don't want to use a punch then.
|
|
80 7010 w/Cab, 67 190XTD Series I w/500 Loader, AC 2000 Plow, AC 4 row Planter, AC 77G Rake, Member Indiana A-C Partners, Member TAC
|
|
