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Thad in AR. 
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 Posted: 22 May 2022 at 8:56am |
 fixer1958 wrote:
Well if it still does the same thing changing all those parts it's likely not the problem.Step back a little and ask the great white buffalo for a clue.
Seriously though, I think when you do figure it out it may be something stupid. Has happened to me before. |
Oh I assure you stupid has already kicked in. I should have found a way to test those very expensive coils before I bought them. I took it to a supposed reputable shop to get this figured out. He said he had no way to test coils. After a few questions I found. Him to be an oil changer and no more experienced in this than I and at $80.00 an hour I had to bring it back home. Not knocking the guy or his prices just that he can’t figure this out and told me so. I actually appreciate his honesty. And yes I’m sure this is gonna be something simple.
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fixer1958
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Posted: 22 May 2022 at 8:03am |
Well if it still does the same thing changing all those parts it's likely not the problem. Step back a little and ask the great white buffalo for a clue.
Seriously though, I think when you do figure it out it may be something stupid. Has happened to me before.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 22 May 2022 at 7:40am |
Dave H wrote:
Since we are fishing, I would ohm out those coil packs when it won't run, especially the weak/dead side. Highly unlike;y but I have seen new parts right out of the box bad.
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I wish I knew how? These have 4 prong plugs. I’ve tried to figure out just how these work with no success. I tried them like a common old coil but got nothing.
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Dave H
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 1:48pm |
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Since we are fishing, I would ohm out those coil packs when it won't run, especially the weak/dead side. Highly unlike;y but I have seen new parts right out of the box bad.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 12:26pm |
there are some electric fuel pumps that put out 2 psi and go inline from the tank to the carb... they only cost $15. ......... used on a lot of mowers.
Edited by steve(ill) - 21 May 2022 at 12:31pm
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 10:29am |
fixer1958 wrote:
I see what you have now. Not the same as that POS Onan.
Possibly be a fuel line sucking air some place. Maybe opening up a little when hot. I have had one collapse before internally and not see it. It was an automotive style low pressure fuel line on my WD line from the tank to the carb. |
Been giving this some thought
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fixer1958
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 9:33am |
I see what you have now. Not the same as that POS Onan.
Possibly be a fuel line sucking air some place. Maybe opening up a little when hot. I have had one collapse before internally and not see it. It was an automotive style low pressure fuel line on my WD line from the tank to the carb.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:28am |
fixer1958 wrote:
Where is the ignition pickup on that?I had an Onan that did that and was on the crank behind the flywheel. Get hot and start doing what you described. You can learn to hate something very quickly.
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Cub Cadet 17AGACACN56 Honda GXV 630 688cc.
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Kansas99
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:28am |
TramwayGuy wrote:
If there is a restriction at the tank feed line, there could be a vacuum buildup and gasoline will ‘boil’ at a lower point than at atmospheric pressure.
Also, using winter blend gasoline can also cause problems if used in summer… |
Interesting I never knew that, would explain why a electric fuel pump at the tank will take care of vapor lock problems sometimes. I guess it’s same principle as boiling water at room temperature. Pulling a vacuum.
Edited by Kansas99 - 21 May 2022 at 8:31am
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:20am |
fixer1958 wrote:
Where is the ignition pickup on that?I had an Onan that did that and was on the crank behind the flywheel. Get hot and start doing what you described. You can learn to hate something very quickly.
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I have not pulled the flywheel. I figured everything was charging related under there. These coils each have a 4 prong plug plus the coil/spark plug wire.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:17am |
jaybmiller wrote:
re: Jay it draws vacuum from a barn on the intake.
****
well I know this is a 'farming website'.....
I'll assume 'spellcheck' or 'phatphingers', hehehe
ok, maybe 'google' your engine/ dies when hot to see if it's a common problem ??
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Vacuum port. Was supposed to say barb.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 8:07am |
re: Jay it draws vacuum from a barn on the intake.
****
well I know this is a 'farming website'.....
I'll assume 'spellcheck' or 'phatphingers', hehehe
ok, maybe 'google' your engine/ dies when hot to see if it's a common problem ??
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BrianC
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 7:30am |
A favorite diagnostic tool is a can of ether. When it dies, right away give it a snort of ether and see if you get some action. Fuel was winter blend, how old is it? 4 months, or the previous year, 16 months? Anyone know what old gas symptoms look like?
What make, year, model # is this mower? That will help for using internet search about this issue.
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fixer1958
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 7:25am |
Where is the ignition pickup on that? I had an Onan that did that and was on the crank behind the flywheel. Get hot and start doing what you described. You can learn to hate something very quickly.
Edited by fixer1958 - 21 May 2022 at 7:27am
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:57am |
jaybmiller wrote:
Assuming pump gets it's vacuum from a valve cover..... are the bolts securing the valve cover tight ? Any oil drips from that cover ?
Going far out on a limb but.... as then engine heats up, valve cover becomes 'loose' from head, loss of vacuum, loss of gas, engine stops. when it all cools down...'runs fine'.
hay, I only got so many straws left !
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Jay it draws vacuum from a barn on the intake. Valve covers were tight when I removed them to check valves. Yhey have very nice well made gaskets. May check intake bolts??? Hondas seem to be well machined with good seal ability. I’ll keep checking.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:40am |
Assuming pump gets it's vacuum from a valve cover..... are the bolts securing the valve cover tight ? Any oil drips from that cover ?
Going far out on a limb but.... as then engine heats up, valve cover becomes 'loose' from head, loss of vacuum, loss of gas, engine stops. when it all cools down...'runs fine'.
hay, I only got so many straws left !
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:39am |
TramwayGuy wrote:
If there is a restriction at the tank feed line, there could be a vacuum buildup and gasoline will ‘boil’ at a lower point than at atmospheric pressure.
Also, using winter blend gasoline can also cause problems if used in summer… |
Tram you really have me thinking. Last winter when gas prices started going up. I went and filled every can on the property. The successful run I had with the mower was with fresh non e gas that I had just bought that morning. It was also cooler that day. When at its worst was with the winter bought gas.
Edited by Thad in AR. - 21 May 2022 at 6:41am
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 21 May 2022 at 6:36am |
steve(ill) wrote:
<span style="color: rgb0, 0, 36; : rgb254, 252, 212;">Fuel line comes out of the top of the tank ang runs in front of the moto</span><span style="color: rgb0, 0, 36; : rgb254, 252, 212;">
</span> <span style="color: rgb0, 0, 36; : rgb254, 252, 212;">so it does work off some type of vacuum sysyem or fuel pump suction... and not gravity feed... that could be a clue..</span> |
It is supplied by a plastic vacuum operated fuel pump. I’ve removed, inspected and cleaned all the fuel lines and fuel pump. I started it with the fuel line to carb in a jug. It pumped a steady stream. I removed the pump, cleaned it and put vacuum to it. I found no vacuum leakage.
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TramwayGuy
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 10:02pm |
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If there is a restriction at the tank feed line, there could be a vacuum buildup and gasoline will ‘boil’ at a lower point than at atmospheric pressure.
Also, using winter blend gasoline can also cause problems if used in summer…
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 8:35pm |
Fuel line comes out of the top of the tank ang runs in front of the moto
so it does work off some type of vacuum sysyem or fuel pump suction... and not gravity feed... that could be a clue..
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 8:05pm |
steve(ill) wrote:
The carburetor may be getting hot and causing the VAPOR LOCK... the gas line can contribute to it.... But we have not discussed the gas tank location ? Is there radiant heat on the bottom of the gas tank ? Could it use an insulation blanket or baffle
from the motor ? |
The gas tank is under a black cover on the left side to the left of the engine. It sits right over the left rear tire. Fuel line comes out of the top of the tank ang runs in front of the motor then around the right side of the motor to the fuel pump then to the carb.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 5:31pm |
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The carburetor may be getting hot and causing the VAPOR LOCK... the gas line can contribute to it.... But we have not discussed the gas tank location ? Is there radiant heat on the bottom of the gas tank ? Could it use an insulation blanket or baffle from the motor ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 11:49am |
Thad in AR. wrote:
Kansas99 wrote:
Thad, I wish I could help but I had that exact motor on a landpride razor that did the exact same thing, although it would only do it when it was hot outside, at least 95 or more, if there was no wind then it would do it at lower temp. I had dual tanks and could switch back and forth and help but not solve, I never figured out what the cause was, but I was almost certain it was a vapor lock issue. I guess I really gave up because usually it was hot enough out that you didn't want to be on a mower anyways, so it was a excuse. Mine was new enough that it had the black outer plastic cover, but my neighbor had same mower older red metal cover 20hp and it wouldn't do it. I was almost at the point of putting a fuel can in the freezer and when it did it pour that fuel in or try rapping the black fuel tanks in white. I changed fuel line routing checked everything, got nothing. I don't know if that's your problem but I felt fuel was mine, just never got it figured out. Have you had this mower a while? I can't remember now but I think mine started first year or two I had it.
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bought in late 2017.
Red main engine color the rest are black.
I do feel that re-routing the fuel line helped.
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Has brand new coils. Dies a slow fumbly kind of death. Spit spider n die.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 11:47am |
Kansas99 wrote:
Thad, I wish I could help but I had that exact motor on a landpride razor that did the exact same thing, although it would only do it when it was hot outside, at least 95 or more, if there was no wind then it would do it at lower temp. I had dual tanks and could switch back and forth and help but not solve, I never figured out what the cause was, but I was almost certain it was a vapor lock issue. I guess I really gave up because usually it was hot enough out that you didn't want to be on a mower anyways, so it was a excuse. Mine was new enough that it had the black outer plastic cover, but my neighbor had same mower older red metal cover 20hp and it wouldn't do it. I was almost at the point of putting a fuel can in the freezer and when it did it pour that fuel in or try rapping the black fuel tanks in white. I changed fuel line routing checked everything, got nothing. I don't know if that's your problem but I felt fuel was mine, just never got it figured out. Have you had this mower a while? I can't remember now but I think mine started first year or two I had it.
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bought in late 2017. Red main engine color the rest are black. I do feel that re-routing the fuel line helped.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 7:13am |
ne of those ...be nice to be there to SEE it problems..
hmm 'dies'.. is it a slow, fumbly kinda death or quick and stopped ?
does the carb have a drain to check if gas is in the bowl when it fails ? Be REAL careful, hot engine, gasoline......
does carb have an 'anit-dieselling' shuttoff solenoid ? Kohlers were nasty to fail('cure' was to remove the rubber tip...) usually you can hear it 'click' on/off with the key being 'on/off'.
hard to believe it's a mag issue, they 'usually' fail hard....eventually.
going to be interesting to see what CURES this PITA !!
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Kansas99
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 6:52am |
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Thad, I wish I could help but I had that exact motor on a landpride razor that did the exact same thing, although it would only do it when it was hot outside, at least 95 or more, if there was no wind then it would do it at lower temp. I had dual tanks and could switch back and forth and help but not solve, I never figured out what the cause was, but I was almost certain it was a vapor lock issue. I guess I really gave up because usually it was hot enough out that you didn't want to be on a mower anyways, so it was a excuse. Mine was new enough that it had the black outer plastic cover, but my neighbor had same mower older red metal cover 20hp and it wouldn't do it. I was almost at the point of putting a fuel can in the freezer and when it did it pour that fuel in or try rapping the black fuel tanks in white. I changed fuel line routing checked everything, got nothing. I don't know if that's your problem but I felt fuel was mine, just never got it figured out. Have you had this mower a while? I can't remember now but I think mine started first year or two I had it.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 20 May 2022 at 6:39am |
steve(ill) wrote:
Thad, i think you do need to VERIFY a good spark next time it is HOT and STOPS... You have to determine if this is a SPARK or GAS problem to move forward. |
Steve I believe it has spark. It may be intermittent but it has spark. I pull a plug each time and never are they wet/gas soaked although o believe heat might be the cause. I’m gonna buy two of those little spark checkers to test it with. Using a screwdriver shows spark to some degree. Seems to try to run on right cylinder and the left seems to not hit at all when this happens. It tries to start with left plug wire pulled but doesn’t even try with the right wire pulled. Wondering of it has a weak fuel pump or weak vacuum when warm?
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HudCo
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Posted: 19 May 2022 at 11:05pm |
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make sure the gas cap vents
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 19 May 2022 at 10:00pm |
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Thad, i think you do need to VERIFY a good spark next time it is HOT and STOPS... You have to determine if this is a SPARK or GAS problem to move forward.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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fjdrill
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Posted: 19 May 2022 at 9:46pm |
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coil?
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