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Case 580b?(not orange but?) |
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 11:30am |
All four wheels have a center hub that there is a raised part that they are on. Any tips for getting them loose?
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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Oh I know they will work but it was just me wondering why it would be that way. They are 7/8 headed bolts and the one rear tire is one and a 16th nuts on studs
Edited by Hunt4Allis - 19 Feb 2022 at 11:08am |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78136 |
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5/8 bolts have 15/16 heads on them, and standard nuts..... "heavy" nuts for 5/8 bolts are 1-1/16 head.
if it is actually 7/8 head, that is a "heavy" 1/2 inch bolt (standard is 3/4")
Edited by steve(ill) - 19 Feb 2022 at 8:28am |
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Codger
Orange Level Joined: 23 Dec 2020 Location: Illinois Points: 1823 |
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Either or both work well but they have to remain tight. When you have it apart look at both rims to ensure the seating areas are not compromised from being run loose.
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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I bet you're right because they are a larger diameter stud than what the bolt would be I'm only assuming because the nut on the stud is inch and a 16th and the bolt head is only 7/8
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8035 |
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Side with studs/nuts probably got stripped out ( running loose)
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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Why would someone that owned this before me have put studs/nuts on in place of regular bolts on 17.5L-24 r4 rear tires only on one side? ( One side of rear is standard original bolt heads other side of rear is large studs and nuts holding rim on?)
It doesn't really matter, I need to remove both to get new rubber on them that came with it that i plan on using rear outriggers to raise up enough to get off tractor and put large timbers under machine to block it up while there being changed but I just don't see why someone would do this and I dought it came this way from factory?( one with studs,one with bolts) Thanks Matt Thanks Matt Edited by Hunt4Allis - 18 Feb 2022 at 10:05am |
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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Right ok thanks for the info!
Ovals are more expensive but I'm getting one for it... |
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78136 |
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Fresh fuel and take it out and work it may clean it up a lot.
In addition to that, working a tractor that has been "setting" can loosen up some stuck or tarnished rings.... that might help you also.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 78136 |
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most oval mufflers are 3 pass back and forth and end up being quieter than the round mufflers that are normally straight thru ( with a baffle).
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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Can anyone tell me the difference between a oval muffler( it's what's spec'd for this diesel) compared to a straight round muffler that's on it?
I have a large oval cutout from my hood where a oval muffler should be... Edited by Hunt4Allis - 16 Feb 2022 at 10:25am |
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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Okay thanks much!
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4786 |
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Older fuel in the tank can make it slobber, combined with the cold. Fuel loses the aromatics over time, thus losing cetane rating, or it's ability to ignite. Fresh fuel and take it out and work it may clean it up a lot.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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The tires on it say 9.00-16
All tires that are new say 11-16 but actually measure 9" wide at tread so as long as my rims that are on it are 8" wide I'll look at getting what manual calls out being a 11-16. Ok I'm going to do a gradual fluid change on entire thing( 1 system a weekend till all done and I may start by running some seafoam through with new fuel to help clean injectors possibly) reason I thought it may need new rings was only time it slobbered was 5-10f. degree's so I thought being so cold being stored outside and not ran for a couple weeks that the rings tightened up on piston so much it was blowing oil by the rings until it warms up... Maybe being cold affects the combustion of fuel somehow and slobbers only when cold that I have seen( they parked it inside(70°f overnight after my initial looking at per my request to see if it would start without ether and not slobber out exhaust manifold and it started perfectly with no ether and didn't slobber one bit) A bunch of new filters/ fluid is what I'm going to start with and run some seafoam in diesel fuel for a bit and I'll go from there to get a tune-up! Thanks fellas! |
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farmboy520
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Jun 2016 Location: Beason, IL Points: 553 |
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Yes you're looking at the manual correctly. You can measure the rims on the outside while the tires are still on. Measure the best you can from each side to the center and add the two measurements together.
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On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4786 |
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The slobbering may be poor injectors. When fuel oozes out the exhaust it looks like oil, but it's likely fuel.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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The other issue I have is the front tires need replaced and they are marked 9.00-16. My manual for this says front tires should be 11 l-16? How do I make sure that 11 l-16 will mount on my rims that are on the tractor? The rims from the manual say they're 8 in or 8 1/2 so I would think an 11-in wide tire would mount on it if that's what rim I have.
Since they are 9-in white tires and not 11 like the manual says someone probably changed these to 9 somewhere along the way but I want to make sure of my rim width before I buy new tires and also I'm asking just to make sure that I'm looking at the manual correctly? Thanks Matt Edited by Hunt4Allis - 16 Feb 2022 at 5:19am |
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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The reason I ask about checking the rings is because to get it to start when I first went and looked at it they put a shot of ether into it and it was slobbering something out the exhaust manifold ?which at the time I thought was oil possibly coming around the rings because of how cold the motor was (it was 5°) it doesn't seem to slobber when it's warmer like that at all which is what led me to believe the rings and sleeves possibly needed replaced but I will start with a tune-up,
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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Okay, I'm grateful for the info
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4786 |
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You remove the injectors to test compression. Sometimes the pencil injectors can be tough to get out and you ruin them doing so. While they are out, have a local shop test them and service for you if you have a good shop in your area. A diesel tune up consists of setting the rockers, servicing the injectors, and servicing the injection pump. If it started without ether at 40*, I don't think I'd worry about the rings being tired. Once you open pandora's box by pulling the head, you may find it's hard to decide where to stop. Just keep the box closed as long as possible lol!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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It seems to start really easy when they delivered it which was mid-40s with no ether. I feel like if I did a compression test it would give me an idea of what condition the rings are in but to do that I would need to remove the injectors correct? This is my first diesel motor so I'm learning as I go. And your trick I will look into doing a tune-up on it first it sounds like. I've also heard that running seafoam through it as a cleaning that it can do a lot for cleaning the injectors?
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Dave76
Bronze Level Access Joined: 26 Mar 2015 Location: Hebron Illinois Points: 72 |
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Hunt, that is a nice looking unit looks like you found a pretty good one. Ed gave you real good advice.
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4786 |
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Harbor freight has an inexpensive diesel compression tester set, it's their bigger one. It has an adapter for pencil injectors. Seems like that larger kit is about 100-150 bucks. It may just need a fuel system tune up. If it starts when cold, like above 50*, and doesn't drink oil, I'd run it. If it needs ether to start at 70*, and does use oil, then it would definitely need overhauled. Poor pump condition and poor injectors can make it smoke grey/white, it will burn your nose hairs. I like to see at least 300 PSI cranking compression on a diesel, spec may be 350 or even 400.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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If I get a compression tester is there a specific one that is better for diesel motors and would that be the best first step to see why it's smoking? I don't want to just keep running it and destroy the motor. Thanks Matt
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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Brought a 1972 580 b home! Post pictures later... It needs new rings as it does smoke a bit but really strong otherwise.
It's a wet sleeve 188 d diesel motor . How far should I tear it down to replace rings/ sleeve s? Thanks Matt Edited by Hunt4Allis - 15 Feb 2022 at 8:30am |
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Ray54
Orange Level Access Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Location: Paso Robles, Ca Points: 4370 |
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Hunt sorry I got you confused, ws meaning talk to the mechanic. Many old Cat crawlers slobber, with a less than perfect pony motor you tend to let them sit and idle. They can make big mess, put it work all is well again.
But since Amos has real experience with that engine, I sure would listen to him. To far away but have JD 2010 industrial backhoe I would give away. But if you do a bit of looking you would run away from that JD engine. A friend got a call from a widow get this backhoe out of the way. He aired tires saw it had fuel, put a battery in, started drove onto tilt bed tailor. He has hoe asked if I wanted it, my mistake, I said yes. Son and SIL played with controls all worked shut it off. Looked at dip stick milkshake. Drained it looked in radiator empty. Pour a gal of water in, soon it is pouring out of the still open pan. So hear it sits. The friend and I have experience the the 6 cylinder version of this engine in a JD combine, we have had enough. But a real, run when parked hoe sitting here.
Edited by Ray54 - 15 Feb 2022 at 2:21pm |
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Amos
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1306 |
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Like i said earlier, I have put 6000 hrs on mine. It has never done what you are describing, nor has it ever showed any sign wet lapping. At 6300 hrs from new it did break a compression ring which split the piston lands on that cylinder, had a ton of blowby and would miss at idle but no slobbering, I rebuilt the engine completely then and its been great ever since.
it is hard to diagnose an engine issue over the phone, even harder over a forum like this and as these girls become senior ladies, well anything can happen to them!!
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Hunt4Allis
Orange Level Joined: 13 Mar 2018 Location: Ohio Points: 1160 |
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This is where I get lost because one person will say it can slobber some at low idle speed at very cold temperatures (which is when it was doing it. ) And then another person will say it's definitely a very bad sign on that motor. I know there's no way to diagnose exactly what's going on without tearing it apart but I did talk to a diesel mechanic on it today and he seemed to think that he leaned more toward it's been sitting a little while and it was very cold so it's probably either oil coming past the ring on the piston on that cylinder or a faulty injector. I'm going to go look at it again Saturday after it's been in their building warmed up for a day to somewhat normal temperatures like 65 or 70. I'm going to take my laser temperature and May crack open one of the nuts on the injectors. The diesel mechanic that I talked to today on it seemed to think that it may only do it at low idle when it's very cold outside. He thought that it would clear up just by running it and operating it some since it's been sitting a while and so cold.After it warmed up it seemed to stop doing it.
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Amos
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Points: 1306 |
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Yes, it is not the best starting engine when it gets below freezing. I had mine plugged in yesterday morning for three hours and it started on the second revolution...without the block heater definitely she would have taken a couple squirts of ether to get it up and running. If there is fuel slobbering from the exhaust, called wet lapping, on that engine there is definitely a problem with it, major problem. it is really a good running super efficient engine. Oh nd it was 5 degrees F yesterday when i started mine up
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8035 |
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The manifold has a runner from the head to it. He's saying to check the runner as it exits the head....and there are few older mechanical diesels that will start cold without some "help". I was thinking the 580B the TWP had,had a manifold heater.. NEVER use one of those along with ether.
Edited by SteveM C/IL - 27 Jan 2022 at 2:03pm |
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