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Case 580b?(not orange but?)

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Category: Allis Chalmers
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Topic: Case 580b?(not orange but?)
Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Subject: Case 580b?(not orange but?)
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 9:57pm
I'm looking at buying a case 580B with 6,000 hours. It's a diesel engine that looks to be around 50 horsepower. What are the things that people would look for when inspecting this motor and machine? It's a front loader with a backhoe.Thanks Matt



Replies:
Posted By: Phil48ACWC
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 6:59am
The engine and trans is usually pretty solid if they were half way decently maintained. Look for hydraulic leaks on hoses and hydraulic cylinders. Parts are available at fair prices on the internet. Case IH dealers are ridiculous. I have a Case 580B now for 14 years. Work horse machine. Great to have around. Here's my 580B.





Posted By: jaybmiller
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 7:14am
Used to see a LOT of them with city workers sitting in them, friend had a 680..much bigger.
As Phil says, usual stuff..leaks and pins.
Get it high up on bucket and legs, turn off engine,see how long it takes to touch the ground.


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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)

Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:12am
Great thanks!


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:13am
What do they normally sell for with all working order with 6000 hours?


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 9:38am
He has it listed as a 580B construction king, large front bucket and backhoe, he says everything runs great starts easy even in cold but does have some cylinder leaks which he has the kits to repack all of them to go with it
Shuttle shift works and brakes also work
I looked it up on tractor data it shows it was built from the '60s and '70s but he says it is from the '80s?


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 9:49am
1975, or 1976 was the last year for the 580B. I had a 1977 580C, and 1980 seen the release of the 580D.

If I were in the market I'd hold off for a 580E, or 580 Super E as they had a much better driveline in them including the Cummins engine which is very reliable and easy to get parts for. Extendahoe, and 4X4 were getting increasingly popular in those years also.


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 9:59am
I dont think you can compare machines 20- 30 years apart.. NEW always has MORE STUFF.

We bought a fence row 530 backhoe about 10 years ago.. Motor had water and locked up.. I rebuilt that...  Transmission, shift , rear end all good design and no attention needed other than oil change.

All the hoses were basically rotted. After the 3rd one blew, i replaced them all. Have rebuilt almost all the cylinders due to external leaks.. Couple of bucket / pins worn and needed replaced.  Rear stabalizer arm sockets too sloppy and arms hitting tires. Had to weld up and grind bore back to size.. Thats about all. ... I think it was about 1970 model.  For the money, you could not do better. We probably use it 100 hours a year.





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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 10:03am
I would not trust those hours on a machine that old.  Made from 71 to 76.  How they were used and maintained is most important.  We have a 580D here.  Replaced all the hydraulic lines and put new seals in the cylinders back in the summer.  You will probably have to do that too.  Aside from that, it works great.


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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 10:10am
I understand I could wait to get a later model but this one is right down the road from me so I could literally drive it home without the need for shipping or cost associated with that. The pictures of this are all yellow and it appears to be more of a front loader backhoe than a actual case tractor which is what tractor data is showing the appearance of it to look like. This one seems to be more a commercial model. It does not look jumbled together it looks more like a modern backhoe that has a roof. It's not an enclosed cab but I'm just trying to figure out what to offer? He has it listed for $7,200, like I say it's a diesel that he claims starts easily and runs great... I would like to be more in the 5,000 range so I'm just trying to get a good ballpark number that it's worth?


Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 10:30am
We are not the ones buying it and we have not seen it, so what we think its worth is irrelevant.  He is at 7200 and you are at 5000.  If it is good for you and you want it, start negotiating.


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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 10:46am
Okay I understand I just went on to the internet and found several comparable ones and got a idea of price. Thanks anyway


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 12:37pm
Like Myron said, $5-7000. is your range.. A lot depends on Location, Condition, and how BAD you want it..  If you dont get it and he sells it for $7K to someone else, what are your other options ? .......... 6000 hours could be a lot of hours on a small diesel motor, depends on how it was used.. Look at other wear and tear to determine.

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:08pm
Right that's what I'm trying to figure out is what exactly to look for wear and tear otherwise. He says that he bought it from the original owner on a farm so that could mean anything. He did say that it had a new injection pump and battery installed recently


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:12pm
old cracked hoses, leaks , worn pin bushings, general SLOP in linkage.... and see if it Shuttles FWD- REV without problem, stays in gears without jumping out ... tire condition ?

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:13pm
Okay I'm not sure what a shuttle shift is but I will try to do some research and none of my other tractors are a diesel so I'm not sure what to look for on them for problems? He claims that it doesn't smoke but I thought most diesels do?


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 1:18pm
I dont know how the 580 works, but on our 530, you have 3 "gear levers"..... On is the transmission and you choose 1-2-3-4 gear.... BIG Second lever off the the left is FWD- REV.. so you leave it in 1st gear when loading and just use the F-R shuttle to change directions... Third lever off to the right is HI-LO... we never move that.

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 2:50pm
INJECTION PUMP FAILURE!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol -- They are prome to that! Got 2 old 68 -- 580ck's here and both ate the injection pumps, and thats the only downfall I know of on them.
Second on the list would be the clutch UNLESS you have the converter drive in it which 1 of mine does and I never liked the converter drives on anything!


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http://machinebuildersnetwork.com/


Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 5:45pm
I have had my 580B for about 25 years.  In that time I have put 6000 hrs on it myself.  It had 3400 on the hour meter when I bought it.  I had to overhaul the torque converter when I bought it as it was slipping.  Had the head gasket go about 5000 ours on the meter and did the injection pump about 1000 hours after that as it was leaking around the shafts when cold winter came.  Pins bushings and seals in the hydraulic cylinders.  Don't rebuild the steering cylinders when they start to leak, replace them as they wear inside the cylinder and will bypass.  Its also cheaper to buy aftermarket cylinders than case seal kit for steering...my engine is 200 cu inch diesel,  A great running engine, very good on fuel, Shuttle transmission can be one of two.  A clutch and shuttle transmission or a torque converter and shuttle behind that with a four speed manual so you have four forward and four reverse gears either set up,

If you want one  that is easy to work on buy a c or later as they re much easier to work on engine or shuttle or transmission.  On the B you take the engine out to work on any one of those and the loader has to come off.  They fixed that on the C with a short driveshaft you can remove to get the trans out or the shuttle or the 4 speed, not ter th entire backhoe to  pieces to get to them


Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:15pm
front pump coupler is probley about shot we just done about a year ago for a guy one side was rusted and seized bad


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:49pm
Originally posted by HudCo HudCo wrote:

front pump coupler is probley about shot we just done about a year ago for a guy one side was rusted and seized bad

Who's front pump coupler are you referring to? These posts get so turned around that it's difficult to follow who someone is talking about after a while...
Thanks


Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 4:08am
My front pump coupler, from the crank pully on the engine to the hydraulic pump, was seized when I bought mine, still is, its hard to change the fan belt that way but makes no difference to the way it runs.


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 17 Jan 2022 at 9:03pm
Township had a 580B back in the day....would run all day and burn 11 gal


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:23pm
So the 580B construction king that I went to look at and test out today has issues with the transmission which scare me(it only has two working gears out of the four), it's shuttle shifter did not work correctly.
To fix these issues do they need split in half and what is the cost on something like that?(it seemed very random as to when you could get it to go forward and reverse with the shuttle shifter) of course the person selling it said it just needs the linkage fixed and adjusted but they did say the transmission would need fixed


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:27pm
The seller is willing to take $1,500 off but I don't know if that would be enough to split one of these and get it fixed or not?


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 2:51pm
If able to do the work yourself, maybe, but still doubtfull.

If unable to do the work yourself, would not be a consideration.

The 580b series had a "twin disc" unit that was known to be troublesome with high hours.


Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 20 Jan 2022 at 6:28pm
My guess is the shuttle valve is your problem, with the shuttle transmission anyways, mine leaked oil out one of the spools when I bought it and I took it part and put seals and o rings into it.  When I was in the case dealer later talking to their service manager and mentioned I did that he about fell out of his chair.  He told me that they never do that because those valves are notorious for acting up and when they have one not acting normal they replace it with one they have and if it works right then they just get a new one an put it on.  Mine is still working and does not leak...maybe i just got really lucky!!!
As for you only having two gears that will be a complete tear down, engine, loader and shuttle transmission will have to come off/out to get to the 4 speed...lots of labor....lots...


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 6:50am
It's a difficult decision because if I fix the shuttle shifter it does have two forward and one reverse gears that work so my thought is can I use it for a while if I get the shuttle shifter fixed the way it is? These aren't very common to find in the diesel great running version that it is and the front loader works great. I asked a local shop how much it would cost and they said it could cost $2,500 just to split it and that doesn't fix it That's just to split it. Then he said you could get into thousands and thousands of dollars? I think he was trying to make it sound way worse than what they typically take to fix so that I would buy a newer version that he has available for $19,000! I don't have that kind of cash but I could get this one and slowly fix it up if I decide. I took my hydraulic pump off my Alice Chalmers CA and rebuilt it so I believe I can fix the shuttle shifter valve assembly myself


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 7:20am
Resealing a shuttle is not difficult or expensive. However it does have wear parts and if they are damaged or worn out, can get expensive. You don't plan to use the tractor day in and day out so if willing to do the work, the impact is significantly less than someone that would rely upon it for income.

The transmission issue could be and probably is very minor such as a broken pin, or poppet ball/spring issue. Possibly the shift rails of the transmission are either worn or their bushings are worn out. When losing two gears as mentioned, it's usually shifting fork related and this is usually not difficult to facilitate repairs on but much easier when the transmission is removed.

$2500.00 to split that tractor seems high but there is a lot of labor involved and you really need to have either overhead support, or specialty jacks/cribbing for the front half of the tractor. The front half likes to roll over to the side once it's lost it's mountings to the rear half so don't plan to use a simple floor jack and block to support it.

When I purchased my 580C it was in response of being told by the service manager at the local JI Case dealership they were a better tractor than the 580B series citing the shuttle problems. I never had an ounce of trouble from the machine so no direct experience making repairs; only routine servicing.

If it were me and it's not, I would probably not purchase this machine as it appears the owner is either unaware, has mislead, or misrepresented the machine from what you have posted. You have to keep in mind many times the initial low purchase price is just the introductory fee and sometimes it's best to look around before "diving in". 


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:09am
No it's definitely not something I would rely on for income. It would be a purchase that I make and would need to work on it as I can to fix it up. It starts very easily runs great and have cylinder leaks but all of them do at the age of it. I plan on repacking the cylinders myself. You would think that if a shift fork broke off it would fall down into the gears and not allow it to move at all or have major grinding horrible sounds when moving and this one doesn't so it leads me to believe maybe something else like what you said. This one is the best that I've seen in a long time as far as the tires and it's ability to lift and dig is very strong so I believe the hydraulic pump is good.


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:21am
If its not selling too fast, then offer even less and see if he takes it..

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:25am
You are asking for trouble. If you can't afford a good one to start with you can't afford this one either. More than likely you will put as much money in this one to make it whole and all the headaches getting it there. Remember what Dirty Harry said....Do you feel lucky?


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 4:56pm
Update on this, I passed on that one that had transmission issues and found another 580b diesel that has no transmission issues but higher hours (8900 showing) My only concern with this one is one of the four cylinders has oil or at least what looks like oil spurting out from the exhaust manifold? How can I diagnose what seems to be the issue? It seems to start run drive and operate normal. Thanks Matt


Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:06pm
Oil or Fuel?  what is the color of the smoke coming out the exhaust?  Does it run on all 4 cylinders?


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:42pm
It looks like oil but from what I've read it's hard to decipher oil from fuel? ( It looks like motor oil to me) looks to me like white smoke- not really terrible...)
How can I tell for sure if it's running on all 4 cylinder s?


Posted By: Dave76
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:57pm
OMG   Run Forrest Run     NO. THE OTHER WAY!!!


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 7:35pm
I'm looking for help not criticism please. I do not own any diesels so I don't know what to look for and I'm hoping to gain some info on a 4-cylinder diesel that's from the mid 70s, thanks Matt


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 9:08pm
normally excess fuel burns BLACK... excess oil burns GREY.... burning antifreeze is WHITE..... its hard to tell oil from water on some ... SMELL what it is.... look at exhaust pipe for water or BURNT OIL.

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:06am
If you can't tell from the sound of the engine if it is missing or not then I would just check the temperature of each runner on the exhaust manifold beside the head. one, or more, will not be the same temperature like 75 degrees colder or something like a big number.  Could be the head gasket, but i doubt it would start that good if the head gasket is leaking.  A harbor freight laser temperature finder would set you up pretty cheap to check it out.  An easy engine to overhaul if that is all that wrong with it.  Best way to know what is leaking is to put it on your finger and smell or taste it  oil well its slippery and smells like oil, anti freeze tastes sweet and is more tacky and less slippery than oil.
You are looking at machines that require a substantial amount of work, and will cost you money for parts.  You might want to look at something that nots close to its death bed, but costs a little more.  The problems that you are asking about are only the ones you are seeing, rest assured there are more on machines in the conditions you describe. 


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:19am
I can tell whether a gasoline engine is missing but an older 4 cylinder diesel like this is noisy to begin with when running. I do have a laser temperature gauge I can check that with and I appreciate the info. To me it almost sounded like it had a backfiring pop but not the entire engine like on a gaser it almost sounded like three cylinders were running normal and one was kind of making a different bang when it came up and maybe it's the one that has dark fluid coming out of the manifold because the injector is not working correctly and all it is is that? I'm going to have a experienced diesel mechanic look at it when I go back.(sounds like from what one of you guys said is that if it's black like it looks like but it's probably just unburnt diesel) Thanks for the info fellas


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:44am
Amos, What do you mean check the "runner" next to the exhaust manifold?
They did have to jumper on the starter because the start switch does not work and also gave it a small shot of starter fluid to get it to fire. It's been sitting outside and it's very cold here in Northeast Ohio pretty much everyone that I've gone to look at has had to use starter fluid to get to fire and run. I don't know if the these symptoms could mean that head gasket is bad and that's all it is?


Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 11:53am
Not familiar with the engine in the Case but some diesel are prone to slobber fuel and carbon from running at idle and low temperature. So in some cases slobber may not be deal killer, but it sure could be. 

The temp of the exhaust of each cylinder should give good induction of a dead cylinder. 

Another way to tell by listing is to loosen a fuel injector line. Do them all one at a time it should sound the same on any 3 of 4. But sound doesn't change on one you know it is dead.   


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Hunt4Allis Hunt4Allis wrote:

Amos, What do you mean check the "runner" next to the exhaust manifold?
They did have to jumper on the starter because the start switch does not work and also gave it a small shot of starter fluid to get it to fire. It's been sitting outside and it's very cold here in Northeast Ohio pretty much everyone that I've gone to look at has had to use starter fluid to get to fire and run. I don't know if the these symptoms could mean that head gasket is bad and that's all it is?
The manifold has a runner from the head to it. He's saying to check the runner as it exits the head....and there are few older mechanical diesels that will start cold without some "help". I was thinking the 580B the TWP had,had a manifold heater.. NEVER use one of those along with ether. 


Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 4:59pm
Yes, it is not the best starting engine when it gets below freezing.  I had mine plugged in yesterday morning for three hours and it started on the second revolution...without the block heater definitely she would have taken a couple squirts of ether to get it up and running.  If there is fuel slobbering from the exhaust, called wet lapping, on that engine there is definitely a problem with it, major problem.  it is really a good running super efficient engine.  Oh nd it was 5 degrees  F yesterday when i started mine up


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 9:15pm
This is where I get lost because one person will say it can slobber some at low idle speed at very cold temperatures (which is when it was doing it. ) And then another person will say it's definitely a very bad sign on that motor. I know there's no way to diagnose exactly what's going on without tearing it apart but I did talk to a diesel mechanic on it today and he seemed to think that he leaned more toward it's been sitting a little while and it was very cold so it's probably either oil coming past the ring on the piston on that cylinder or a faulty injector. I'm going to go look at it again Saturday after it's been in their building warmed up for a day to somewhat normal temperatures like 65 or 70. I'm going to take my laser temperature and May crack open one of the nuts on the injectors. The diesel mechanic that I talked to today on it seemed to think that it may only do it at low idle when it's very cold outside. He thought that it would clear up just by running it and operating it some since it's been sitting a while and so cold.After it warmed up it seemed to stop doing it.


Posted By: Amos
Date Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 7:10am
Like i said earlier, I have put 6000 hrs on mine.  It has never done what you are describing, nor has it ever showed any sign wet lapping.  At 6300 hrs from new it did break a compression ring which split the piston lands on that cylinder, had a ton of blowby and would miss at idle but no slobbering, I rebuilt the engine completely then and its been great ever since.

it is hard to diagnose an engine issue over the phone, even harder over a forum like this and as these girls become senior ladies, well anything can happen to them!!


Posted By: Ray54
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 12:22pm
Hunt sorry I got you confused, ws meaning talk to the mechanic. Many old Cat crawlers slobber, with a less than perfect pony motor you tend to let them sit and idle. They can make big mess, put it work all is well again.

But since Amos has real experience with that engine, I sure would listen to him.

To far away Wink  but have JD 2010 industrial backhoe I would give away. But if you do a bit of looking you would run away from that JD engine.  A friend got a call from a widow get this backhoe out of the way. He aired tires saw it had fuel, put a battery in, started drove onto tilt bed tailor. He has hoe asked if I wanted it, my mistake, I said yes. Son and SIL played with controls all worked shut it off. Looked at dip stick milkshake. Drained it looked in radiator empty.  Pour a gal of water in, soon it is pouring out of the still open pan.  So hear it sits. The friend and I have experience the the 6 cylinder version of this engine in a JD combine, we have had enough. 

Wink But a real, run when parked hoe sitting here. Evil Smile


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 8:26am
Brought a 1972 580 b home! Post pictures later... It needs new rings as it does smoke a bit but really strong otherwise.
It's a wet sleeve 188 d diesel motor .
How far should I tear it down to replace rings/ sleeve s? Thanks Matt


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 2:34pm
If I get a compression tester is there a specific one that is better for diesel motors and would that be the best first step to see why it's smoking? I don't want to just keep running it and destroy the motor. Thanks Matt


Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 3:05pm
Harbor freight has an inexpensive diesel compression tester set, it's their bigger one. It has an adapter for pencil injectors. Seems like that larger kit is about 100-150 bucks. It may just need a fuel system tune up. If it starts when cold, like above 50*, and doesn't drink oil, I'd run it. If it needs ether to start at 70*, and does use oil, then it would definitely need overhauled. Poor pump condition and poor injectors can make it smoke grey/white, it will burn your nose hairs. I like to see at least 300 PSI cranking compression on a diesel, spec may be 350 or even 400. 

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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!


Posted By: Dave76
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 5:24pm
Hunt, that is a nice looking unit looks like you found a pretty good one. Ed gave you real good advice.





Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 6:45pm
It seems to start really easy when they delivered it which was mid-40s with no ether. I feel like if I did a compression test it would give me an idea of what condition the rings are in but to do that I would need to remove the injectors correct? This is my first diesel motor so I'm learning as I go. And your trick I will look into doing a tune-up on it first it sounds like. I've also heard that running seafoam through it as a cleaning that it can do a lot for cleaning the injectors?


Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 7:36pm
You remove the injectors to test compression. Sometimes the pencil injectors can be tough to get out and you ruin them doing so. While they are out, have a local shop test them and service for you if you have a good shop in your area. A diesel tune up consists of setting the rockers, servicing the injectors, and servicing the injection pump. If it started without ether at 40*, I don't think I'd worry about the rings being tired. Once you open pandora's box by pulling the head, you may find it's hard to decide where to stop. Just keep the box closed as long as possible lol!

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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 9:07pm
Okay, I'm grateful for the info


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 9:21pm
The reason I ask about checking the rings is because to get it to start when I first went and looked at it they put a shot of ether into it and it was slobbering something out the exhaust manifold ?which at the time I thought was oil possibly coming around the rings because of how cold the motor was (it was 5°) it doesn't seem to slobber when it's warmer like that at all which is what led me to believe the rings and sleeves possibly needed replaced but I will start with a tune-up,


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 5:15am
The other issue I have is the front tires need replaced and they are marked 9.00-16. My manual for this says front tires should be 11 l-16? How do I make sure that 11 l-16 will mount on my rims that are on the tractor? The rims from the manual say they're 8 in or 8 1/2 so I would think an 11-in wide tire would mount on it if that's what rim I have.
Since they are 9-in white tires and not 11 like the manual says someone probably changed these to 9 somewhere along the way but I want to make sure of my rim width before I buy new tires and also I'm asking just to make sure that I'm looking at the manual correctly? Thanks Matt


Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 8:08am
The slobbering may be poor injectors. When fuel oozes out the exhaust it looks like oil, but it's likely fuel. 

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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!


Posted By: farmboy520
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 8:21am
Yes you're looking at the manual correctly. You can measure the rims on the outside while the tires are still on. Measure the best you can from each side to the center and add the two measurements together.

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On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 8:34am
The tires on it say 9.00-16
All tires that are new say 11-16 but actually measure 9" wide at tread so as long as my rims that are on it are 8" wide I'll look at getting what manual calls out being a 11-16.
Ok I'm going to do a gradual fluid change on entire thing( 1 system a weekend till all done and I may start by running some seafoam through with new fuel to help clean injectors possibly) reason I thought it may need new rings was only time it slobbered was 5-10f. degree's so I thought being so cold being stored outside and not ran for a couple weeks that the rings tightened up on piston so much it was blowing oil by the rings until it warms up... Maybe being cold affects the combustion of fuel somehow and slobbers only when cold that I have seen( they parked it inside(70°f overnight after my initial looking at per my request to see if it would start without ether and not slobber out exhaust manifold and it started perfectly with no ether and didn't slobber one bit)
A bunch of new filters/ fluid is what I'm going to start with and run some seafoam in diesel fuel for a bit and I'll go from there to get a tune-up! Thanks fellas!


Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 9:18am
Older fuel in the tank can make it slobber, combined with the cold. Fuel loses the aromatics over time, thus losing cetane rating, or it's ability to ignite. Fresh fuel and take it out and work it may clean it up a lot. 

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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 9:58am
Okay thanks much!


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 10:25am
Can anyone tell me the difference between a oval muffler( it's what's spec'd for this diesel) compared to a straight round muffler that's on it?
I have a large oval cutout from my hood where a oval muffler should be...


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 12:47pm
most oval mufflers are 3 pass back and forth and end up being quieter than the round mufflers that are normally straight thru ( with a baffle).

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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 12:52pm
Fresh fuel and take it out and work it may clean it up a lot.

In addition to that, working a tractor that has been "setting" can loosen up some stuck or tarnished rings.... that might help you also.


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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 1:22pm
Right ok thanks for the info!
Ovals are more expensive but I'm getting one for it...


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 10:03am
Why would someone that owned this before me have put studs/nuts on in place of regular bolts on 17.5L-24 r4 rear tires only on one side? ( One side of rear is standard original bolt heads other side of rear is large studs and nuts holding rim on?)
It doesn't really matter, I need to remove both to get new rubber on them that came with it that i plan on using rear outriggers to raise up enough to get off tractor and put large timbers under machine to block it up while there being changed but I just don't see why someone would do this and I dought it came this way from factory?( one with studs,one with bolts)
Thanks Matt
Thanks Matt


Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:05pm
Side with studs/nuts probably got stripped out ( running loose)


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:29pm
I bet you're right because they are a larger diameter stud than what the bolt would be I'm only assuming because the nut on the stud is inch and a 16th and the bolt head is only 7/8


Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 2:51am
Either or both work well but they have to remain tight. When you have it apart look at both rims to ensure the seating areas are not compromised from being run loose.


Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 8:25am
5/8 bolts have 15/16 heads on them, and standard nuts..... "heavy" nuts for 5/8 bolts are 1-1/16 head.

if it is actually 7/8 head, that is a "heavy" 1/2 inch bolt (standard is 3/4")


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Like them all, but love the "B"s.


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 11:08am
Oh I know they will work but it was just me wondering why it would be that way. They are 7/8 headed bolts and the one rear tire is one and a 16th nuts on studs


Posted By: Hunt4Allis
Date Posted: 19 Feb 2022 at 11:30am
All four wheels have a center hub that there is a raised part that they are on. Any tips for getting them loose?



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