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FREEDGUY 
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 Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 5:37pm |
 SteveM C/IL wrote:
I don't know how old you are,but the noise induced hearing loss doesn't show up right away so the hearing aid comment is moot. If you ran that tractor for hours and years plowing,as you age you will be saying "huh" a lot more as time marches on. BTDT. It ain't really funny. |
I will be 54 on the 27'th of this month, never said hearing loss was funny  . What's getting my hearing is the routers that we use on residential job sites. Would still LOVE to run a straight CHROME pipe on the XT 190 diesel pulling the White 18' disk though, it came with and has had a black,round muffler on it(don't ask me the brand) since we have owned it 
Edited by FREEDGUY - 13 Jan 2020 at 5:38pm
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 13 Jan 2020 at 5:29pm |
Alex09(WI) wrote:
FREEDGUY wrote:
SteveM C/IL wrote:
FREEDGUY wrote:
But yet my question pertaining to the OP'S topic (thanks DR for the round/oval muffler decibles) is WHY the need for the NELSON MUFFLER ???? |
It isn't a need,it's a desire. If you ran tractors with a Nelson and then any brand X (other that a Walker WD-WD45) you would know the answer. If you ran a D17 with the oval Nelson,you would really appreciate at the end of a day of plowing. If you think a crap Stanley sounds fine ,you wouldn't understand. It's all about the sound.
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Our gas D17, series 2 if I recall, had a round muffler and ran MANY hours pulling a 4/16 semi mount plow  . To my knowledge, I can still hear today without "hearing aids" LOL!! When dad made a "supposed" upgrade to a gasser D19,that's the first we had been around an oval muffler. Not a fair comparison in decibles as I suppose the 2 extra cylinders in the '19 might come into play . I thought maybe it was a "correct" muffler to be hailed by the trailer queen/parade people for shows. I still can't fathom the idea of cutting somewhat large holes in a hood for the sake of "sound". Thanks though for your insight. |
To answer your question with a simple straight answer: There is no NEED for the nelson muffler. We CHOOSE the Nelson muffler over the other options because Nelson's are the best of 3 worlds:
1. FUNCTION: They muffle the tractor exhaust better than a stanley or a straight pipe, just as toilet paper wipes your butt better than a bolt.
2. SOUND: Nelson mufflers have a unique sound compared to a Stanley. A lot of our forum members grew up on Allis tractors that had Nelson mufflers, so when they hear the "nelson sound" it is comforting. Just as you would rather hear your favorite song come on the radio, instead of your least favorite song.
3. QUALITY: Nelson mufflers last longer than the stanley ones. Either because the steel is thinner, joints are weaker, or because the paint/coating they use is inferior. Just as a steel roof lasts longer than a shingle roof.
Now there are some people who don't care about the above points. If you don't care about an item performing a task better than another item, and have complete indifference to the sound a muffler makes, and if you could care less about buying parts with a longer lifespan than others, the Nelson muffler is not for you.
Now since I have answered your question sir, would it be too much to ask for you to answer mine?: Which Nelson muffler would you like to see available next?
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THANK YOU VERY MUCH !! That's the type of answer I was seeking !! I applaude your tenacity to get a MAJOR manufacturer "on-board" to produce a discontinued product . To answer your ??, we run a '68 gasser 180 with an oval muffler that we replaced 15 years ago with a NAPA supplied muffler. This tractor is NEVER going to see WOT use for the rest of her days; planting/bush hog/auger duty only  . Again, THANKS for the definitive reasons, greatly appreciated !!
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CORLEWFARM
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 6:48pm |
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cottonpatch
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 6:45pm |
DrAllis wrote:
My recommendation for the next Nelson muffler run would be for the 180/185. Why ?? Because there are THOUSANDS of them still in service yet today, and many have already had the OEM muffler replaced with a Stanley equipped with the centered and smaller outlet pipe and shorter main body. All the other A-C tractor models surviving numbers wouldn't be as great as the 180/185. |
I would agree. Probably would be the last muffler you would need. My 185 my uncle bought new has just shy of 3000 hours and still sports the original Nelson that came on it.
Edited by cottonpatch - 12 Jan 2020 at 6:48pm
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'52 CA, '61 D10 II, ‘61 D15, '66 D15II, '63 D17D III, ‘69 170, '73 185 Crop Hustler, '79 185, '79 7000, '77 7040
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Alex09(WI)
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 6:17pm |
FREEDGUY wrote:
SteveM C/IL wrote:
FREEDGUY wrote:
But yet my question pertaining to the OP'S topic (thanks DR for the round/oval muffler decibles) is WHY the need for the NELSON MUFFLER ???? |
It isn't a need,it's a desire. If you ran tractors with a Nelson and then any brand X (other that a Walker WD-WD45) you would know the answer. If you ran a D17 with the oval Nelson,you would really appreciate at the end of a day of plowing. If you think a crap Stanley sounds fine ,you wouldn't understand. It's all about the sound.
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Our gas D17, series 2 if I recall, had a round muffler and ran MANY hours pulling a 4/16 semi mount plow . To my knowledge, I can still hear today without "hearing aids" LOL!! When dad made a "supposed" upgrade to a gasser D19,that's the first we had been around an oval muffler. Not a fair comparison in decibles as I suppose the 2 extra cylinders in the '19 might come into play . I thought maybe it was a "correct" muffler to be hailed by the trailer queen/parade people for shows. I still can't fathom the idea of cutting somewhat large holes in a hood for the sake of "sound". Thanks though for your insight. |
To answer your question with a simple straight answer: There is no NEED for the nelson muffler. We CHOOSE the Nelson muffler over the other options because Nelson's are the best of 3 worlds:
1. FUNCTION: They muffle the tractor exhaust better than a stanley or a straight pipe, just as toilet paper wipes your butt better than a bolt.
2. SOUND: Nelson mufflers have a unique sound compared to a Stanley. A lot of our forum members grew up on Allis tractors that had Nelson mufflers, so when they hear the "nelson sound" it is comforting. Just as you would rather hear your favorite song come on the radio, instead of your least favorite song.
3. QUALITY: Nelson mufflers last longer than the stanley ones. Either because the steel is thinner, joints are weaker, or because the paint/coating they use is inferior. Just as a steel roof lasts longer than a shingle roof.
Now there are some people who don't care about the above points. If you don't care about an item performing a task better than another item, and have complete indifference to the sound a muffler makes, and if you could care less about buying parts with a longer lifespan than others, the Nelson muffler is not for you.
Now since I have answered your question sir, would it be too much to ask for you to answer mine?: Which Nelson muffler would you like to see available next?
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JC-WI
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 5:48pm |
Yea, constant ringing in the ears and everybody mumbles and can't here anyone I am talking to if there are any other people talking at the same time... Sucks and I don't hear crickets when I am even looking at them. that sucks for others, they hear them dang crickets an it doesn't drive me nuts... but I hear the continual squeal of tinnitus hour after hour and that is no fun.
Difference between the round muffler D17 and the 170 oval muffler was a day and night difference, you could hear the fan on the engine of the 170 instead of the crackle off the pipe on the D17/WD45.
And on the old D17 Diesel with a straight pipe, you had to wear ear plugs and ear muffs when it was working hard.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 3:00pm |
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I don't know how old you are,but the noise induced hearing loss doesn't show up right away so the hearing aid comment is moot. If you ran that tractor for hours and years plowing,as you age you will be saying "huh" a lot more as time marches on. BTDT. It ain't really funny.
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 2:45pm |
SteveM C/IL wrote:
FREEDGUY wrote:
But yet my question pertaining to the OP'S topic (thanks DR for the round/oval muffler decibles) is WHY the need for the NELSON MUFFLER ???? |
It isn't a need,it's a desire. If you ran tractors with a Nelson and then any brand X (other that a Walker WD-WD45) you would know the answer. If you ran a D17 with the oval Nelson,you would really appreciate at the end of a day of plowing. If you think a crap Stanley sounds fine ,you wouldn't understand. It's all about the sound.
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Our gas D17, series 2 if I recall, had a round muffler and ran MANY hours pulling a 4/16 semi mount plow . To my knowledge, I can still hear today without "hearing aids" LOL!! When dad made a "supposed" upgrade to a gasser D19,that's the first we had been around an oval muffler. Not a fair comparison in decibles as I suppose the 2 extra cylinders in the '19 might come into play . I thought maybe it was a "correct" muffler to be hailed by the trailer queen/parade people for shows. I still can't fathom the idea of cutting somewhat large holes in a hood for the sake of "sound". Thanks though for your insight.
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Richardmo
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 8:51am |
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Guess that why when tried to look for one I could not find it.
The one I got from Eldon the piping from the manifold to were goes out the hood could get water down the motor if sit outside and it was raining.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 6:11am |
My recommendation for the next Nelson muffler run would be for the 180/185. Why ?? Because there are THOUSANDS of them still in service yet today, and many have already had the OEM muffler replaced with a Stanley equipped with the centered and smaller outlet pipe and shorter main body. All the other A-C tractor models surviving numbers wouldn't be as great as the 180/185.
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Don Jr NY
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Posted: 12 Jan 2020 at 3:34am |
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I would like to submit the idea of the D-19 gas muffler for your next run. Thanks. Don Jr.
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Mikez
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 11:02pm |
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And didn't they hold up better too. The cheapes rot off in a few years
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 10:46pm |
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I doubt very much that AGCO would be interested. They have been selling the cheaper Stanley mufflers for 20 or 30 years or dealers have been selling Stanley's for 30 years because the Nelson mufflers cost too much. People (dealers AND customers) didn't care about originality. They just wanted a new muffler,
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GregStremel
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 10:44pm |
I think it is tremendous that you got them to manufacture some new ones.
We put an oval on a series 2 D17. We used a saber saw on the hood. That was our main field reactor back then. It was much better for our ears.
We still have that D17 but do not use it much. The muffler is still pretty good but I will buy a new one from you and put it in storage until needed.
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SteveM C/IL
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 10:42pm |
FREEDGUY wrote:
But yet my question pertaining to the OP'S topic (thanks DR for the round/oval muffler decibles) is WHY the need for the NELSON MUFFLER ???? |
It isn't a need,it's a desire. If you ran tractors with a Nelson and then any brand X (other that a Walker WD-WD45) you would know the answer. If you ran a D17 with the oval Nelson,you would really appreciate at the end of a day of plowing. If you think a crap Stanley sounds fine ,you wouldn't understand. It's all about the sound.
Edited by SteveM C/IL - 11 Jan 2020 at 10:45pm
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Mikez
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 10:37pm |
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That's cool Alex that they had the specs an stuff.
Reading that made me think of my dad telling me how years ago him and his buddy would go to local Chevy dealer and just buy 55 Chevy parts, just pick something dif each time. Well he got a set of fenders and there wasn't any metal at all in fender just over head light. And they said the reason was the dies were so wore out.
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JohnCO
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 10:36pm |
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Alex, have you contacted AGCO to see if they are interested in the mufflers? They have to buy them somewhere, might be good to buy them from you.
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"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Alex09(WI)
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 10:27pm |
I thought D19 diesels had a stright pipe from the factory! Thanks Dr Allis for confirming!
JC- The paperwork Nelson sent me for the D17 muffler was dated 1962, they will go by those specs when they manufacture the mufflers. They still had most of the tooling, but a couple dies were either missing or worn out so they had to replace those. So I would think the quality would be the same for these new ones.
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 9:53pm |
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D-19 diesels never had a muffler.
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Clay
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 8:47pm |
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Richardmo
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 6:13pm |
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Is there option for the D 19 Diesel tractors?
As far making the hood for oval muffler, draw out the patter use a hole saw for the outer portion and air nibbler for the rest. Did this for my spray rig tractor
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JC-WI
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 5:48pm |
off brand muffs are inferior. ... Hope Nelson put the same quality as original or better into the new Nelson mufflers.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 5:22pm |
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But yet my question pertaining to the OP'S topic (thanks DR for the round/oval muffler decibles) is WHY the need for the NELSON MUFFLER ????
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cottonpatch
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 1:59pm |
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I’m in on a 170/175 gas muffler, and 185 muffler when you get to that point.
Edited by cottonpatch - 11 Jan 2020 at 2:00pm
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'52 CA, '61 D10 II, ‘61 D15, '66 D15II, '63 D17D III, ‘69 170, '73 185 Crop Hustler, '79 185, '79 7000, '77 7040
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Alex09(WI)
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 12:41pm |
JC(WI) wrote:
Alex, what happened to your first diagram picture?
Was kinda hoping the 170 would have been the chosen muffler and the height of the exhaust pipe could be cut off to desired length. But a fellow could slip another pipe over if he really wanted to get the ex. up higher.
Lonn, I wouldn't use a torch, that would warp the metal... but a plasma cutter would maybe do the job in a sweet order, providing the hand is steady.  |
JC- I deleted my sketched drawings because I had used measurements off the stanley mufflers and they are not the same as the Nelson measurements.
Although I didn't choose the 170/175 gas muffler for this run, I am leaning toward ordering that one next, unless a different muffler would be in higher demand.
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Alex09(WI)
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 12:34pm |
AllisFreak MN wrote:
Back to the original subject of this post, Great job by Alex convincing Nelson to produce another round of the elusive original D17 oval mufflers. One question for you Alex; I assume they will be painted black as were the originals? |
Yes, the paperwork from the company states: FINISH: O-02497 BLACK PAINT
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DrAllis
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 9:40am |
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The 170/175 muffler outlet is not only longer, but it is larger in diameter over the D-17 S-3/4 muffler.
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Mikez
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 9:39am |
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Yes jd your right, sorry for getting off track. Like said that is assume to get them to produce more.
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JC-WI
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 9:11am |
Alex, what happened to your first diagram picture?
Was kinda hoping the 170 would have been the chosen muffler and the height of the exhaust pipe could be cut off to desired length. But a fellow could slip another pipe over if he really wanted to get the ex. up higher.
Lonn, I wouldn't use a torch, that would warp the metal... but a plasma cutter would maybe do the job in a sweet order, providin the hand is steady.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that."
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AllisFreak MN
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Posted: 11 Jan 2020 at 7:19am |
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Back to the original subject of this post, Great job by Alex convincing Nelson to produce another round of the elusive original D17 oval mufflers. One question for you Alex; I assume they will be painted black as were the originals?
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'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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