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Starting a diesel engine, especially cold question |
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11388 |
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10W 30 flows better than 15w40 flows better than SAE30. No argument here. I don't use the 7045 much in the winter, so the 15w40 stays in it. A couple hours of block heater, good batteries/cables/ground/starter, and it spins good and starts IF I need it.
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DMiller
Orange Level Access Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 29519 |
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Does not really matter where the throttle is on a cold start of ANY diesel. The governor as the cranking starts is at FULL Fuel until the engine comes up to speed, that is just normal, cranking until see oil pressure with the fuel shut off will allow oil pressure to come up prior to a harsh start but even during cranking there is a period of low oil flow with lack of lubrication to some components, just a fact of internal combustion engines life.
As to going WOT on a cold block, at least allow the head to start to warm prior to hard throttling as the heat and sudden pressure could cause stress fracture cracking and Yes, a block heater aids all these as well gasoline engines in winter. |
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4768 |
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As Dr said above, different fuel injection systems require different procedures. Some do indeed require throttle movement to at least 1/3 travel to put it into start fuel position.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11388 |
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Come on up (we could use some time anyway), and I'll let you start one specific tractor of mine when it's nice and MI cold, 1 day with no throttle move, the next day you can move it up. Once you do that, see if you still think it doesn't matter.
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CrestonM
Orange Level Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8357 |
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I saw the original post and got excited, because I've wondered the same thing, but about Allis 433I and 2800 engines....now I'm still confused...seems about like asking which shade of orange is "correct"...everyone has a preference.
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Tbone95
Orange Level Access Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 11388 |
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True Creston, but in this case, it's the equipment that has the preference, and it's up to you to learn it!
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AC7060IL
Orange Level Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Location: central IL Points: 3198 |
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That's the way it was always explained to me. Likewise, excessively long cranking during startup could do the same cylinder washing. Or, did the improved AC diesel engines (that had piston cooling) have enough crankcase oil pressure during cranking to enable it to be squirted up into cylinder walls? Interesting topic - thanks.
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Charlie175
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Shenandoah, VA Points: 6351 |
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My 190xt hates the cold. Same as our 6060.
With my shed not near an outlet, I am looking for other sources of "startup heat"
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 7981 |
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Charlie,if you don't mind mixing coolant,there are quick couplers rigged on pickups that mate to ones on equipment that some guys connect to let the pickup warm the equipment using the cooling system.....
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Charlie175
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Shenandoah, VA Points: 6351 |
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Interesting. I might use a Kero heater with a Tarp over the hood to trap the heat. Not a fan of open flame though
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
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DiyDave
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 50529 |
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Charlie, If you're talkin about a 190, a perfection 500 Kerosene wick heater should be pretty close to slidin right under the oil pan. Flame is down at the bottom of these, safer than a gas stove, at least... Don't ask me how I know...
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gerkendave
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Location: York, Nebraska Points: 563 |
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Wow guys. Never thought this little question could bring so many answers. I appreciate everyone's insight. Since posting this I have tried throttle open more than normal(1/2) and also tonight just did right above idle. Seems mine likes just above idle. Bumping it up more than that caused excessive black smoke and some coughing/sputtering. Luckily she also gets to sit inside the building which isn't heated but is out of the wind which seems to help. I always plug her in when I know I'll be feeding but sometimes what looks like a lot of hay in the morning is magically gone by that night.
Dr.Allis I'm curious about the 10-30 oil. Is that a safe viscosity to use in the heat of summer (sometimes over 100) while actually working the tractor, say like round baling for extended periods of time? What about going with something like the 5-40 the newer diesels are calling for? That technically would gain me the lower weight when cold but retain the higher weight of the 15-40 when warm right? |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19513 |
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Determine how many Winter starts and hours you will expect the tractor to go thru. 10W-30 is far better than 15W-40 in the Winter if it is a tractor that is expected to start every day. I'd have no problem using it in the Summer months for light work, but for plowing/discing on a 90 degree day it could be border-line light. My Dad didn't put but maybe 25 or 30 hrs on his diesel in the Winter, but it was expected to start when needed and sometimes without much (if any) block heater time. I'd drop the old motor oil from Falls use and replace the oil only (no filters) with straight 10W diesel oil. We ran that thru the Winter months and when Spring came dropped it out and changed oil and filters back to 15W-40.
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gerkendave
Orange Level Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Location: York, Nebraska Points: 563 |
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Thank you Dr!
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4638 |
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I need to correct myself on a previous post. I said I started my XT at 1/2 throttle and come back to a 1/4 upon startup. That is incorrect. Yesterday I started my XT for the first time since hay season ended. 40 degrees, without thinking of the post I had previously put up, I moved the throttle to 1/4, preheat for 30 seconds, turned her over and she almost started immediately. 30 more seconds of preheat, she fired right up and I pulled her back to a 1\8 throttle. It had been a year since my last cold start, obviously I was wrong.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Ranse
Orange Level Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Location: Tennessee Points: 773 |
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I have a 2-60 White, it has a Fiat engine in it. I try not to use it at all in cold weather. But if I have to, I plug the crank case heater in for at least an hour. It also helps if I put a battery charger on it as well, and switch it to jump while cranking. It seems to help this tractor if you pull the throttle back some, but it don't always work. Sometimes you run the battery down before it starts. In that case, go back in the house for another hour and try it again later. I've spent a half day many times getting this tractor started. I also have a 4835 New Holland. It also has a Fiat engine, but with a block heater. The block heater is far superior over the crank case heater. It still usually needs about an hour, but it's just turn the key and go no problem.
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