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190XT narrow front |
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4645 |
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Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 8:40am |
I know this is a long shot but does anyone have a narrow front end for sale for a 190XT? I would like to convert mine to a narrow front. Are there any other series that used the same front end that may also work?
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DSeries4
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Points: 7205 |
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Definitely a long shot. Good luck with that. Early 180s apparently had an internal steering cylinder in the front casting for this purpose. Don't know if it would fit an XT though.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19569 |
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180-190-190XT. Lines will differ on 180.
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4645 |
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I don't know what all is involved withe swap, if anyone has a narrow front i would like to have some up close pictures please.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19569 |
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The whole cast iron front support under the radiator gets swapped when going to a NF.
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4645 |
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Thanks DrAllis, I thought that would be the case. So are you saying a 180 narrow front would also work?
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 7946 |
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Yes they will, 180,190 all the same size, four bolts hold it to the frame and other stuff has to be taken off but it's all the same
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4645 |
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Thank you, happen to know if anyone has one for sale?
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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Orange Blood
Orange Level Joined: 29 Nov 2010 Location: ColoradoSprings Points: 4053 |
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If I may, and I am sure I will be blasted for offering a different opinion.
There was only one front housings for the 190/190xt tractor. That being said, the tractor could be ordered with the front support "loaded" with the power steering ram inside, misc. lines a steering spindle etc. this version of the front housing was called an "Interchangeable front axle". The other option was the same front housing, missing the internal parts, replaced with an external mounted steering cylinder, and a steering arm pivot mounted on the front end assembly itself under the oil pan. The latter is what you find on most tractors, likely because it was cheaper, and by that time most all row crop tractors were running wide fronts, with few narrows left in the world, so what was the point, likely a question asked by many a farmer ordering the tractors new. The front end housing with the internal steering 1. was a better design in that it kept forces off the front end which IMO added to breaking so many front ends, or could be the sole reason. 2. allowed the use of the narrow front wheel assembly. We have an interchangeable front 190xt, been a family tractor since new, have the receipts from the family dealership, and know it's history. Yes we have the narrow front to got with it, and no it's not for sale! If we could find a real single front, that would be awesome, but never going to happen.
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
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ac fleet
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jan 2014 Location: Arrowsmith, ILL Points: 2214 |
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A guy about 60 miles North of me has one but don't think he would sell it!---with narrow front you could probably use the late ac mounted corn picker. thanks; ac fleet
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JC-WI
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33658 |
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First wondering is, Is it possible to "barrow" a narrow front for a 190 and use it to make some green castings and then get them machined out for those that want the front support...
Which leads to the second wonder somebody asked awhile ago,.. would it be possible to make an adapter that would accept the JD rollomatic off of a JD 4010 or 4020... or 730... might be easier on the front support. |
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
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Calvin Schmidt
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Can. Points: 4515 |
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I have a Narrow Front OneNinety. The power steering lines run along the left side above the removable side panel. The standard wide fronts have the lines and hydraulic hoses run down the right side frame rail to the steering cylinder. Interestingly the BeachMaster OneNinetys have the internal steering convertible front casting. Because of the short spindles and the job application it was likely so the hydraulic lines would not get snagged on any beach debris. Also not for sale!
Edited by Calvin Schmidt - 05 Mar 2017 at 7:57pm |
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19569 |
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The "inter-changeable" front support was an OPTION and cost more $$$$$$$$. Allis-Chalmers probably sold more tractors with wide fronts than anyone, and partly because of lower cost. Broken wide front axle frames at the left rear corner could have been eliminated with 5 lbs of extra steel bracing and interestingly only about 50% ever break. Makes me think those that were broken were somehow used more stressfully than others ?? I'll take the external cylinder any day over the internal design for simplicity and ease of repairs when needed.
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JayIN
Orange Level Joined: 18 Dec 2009 Location: SE/IN Points: 1982 |
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We (me) dropped our XT wide front in a blown out tile hole and broke the left rear corner.At night plowing new rented ground. Dad just laughed and said"the worst thing that ever happened to agriculture was putting headlight on tractors.Now you can hire the town drunk and farm twice as much" I dont Think he meant me...........?????
Edited by JayIN - 06 Mar 2017 at 9:19am |
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sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?"
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injpumpEd
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Walnut IL Points: 4780 |
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When I lived out in Colorado, there was a blown up 190xt near me that I tried to buy, but they were not able to sell it because of legal troubles I think. It was a wet bolster, interchangeable front end tractor, series 1. Seems like it was a 66 by sn. I have often wondered what ever happened to that one, I've been gone from there for well over 20 years. It had a wide front, and a cab. Was a few miles south of Roggen on the east side of the road. Sat there for years!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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tomstractorsandtoys
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Location: wi Points: 515 |
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I have been reading this post with interest as I like the looks of a narrow front 190.I just went to the AGCO site and printed the parts page for the narrow front 190. The design and looks of the front boltster is almost the same as the Deere used in 3010,3020,4010 and 4020's. I couldn't believe how close to the same it looks. Could someone tell me what the width of a 190 is? Are the xt's the same? I have several Deere steering assemblies and do believe they could be made to fit. I would even donate one to someone who could do the machining to make it work.They would be heavy to ship.Unless the Deere is to wide I think it is a very doable project. Does anyone know the height of the Allis pedestal? I have a few Deere rollomatic front ends that I could measure as well. Someday I want a 190 and if this project will work I might sell my D15 and start hunting for one. Anyone with any ideas post back. Tom
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Dale-OH
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: SW OHIO Points: 879 |
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I had a customer who used one out of an oliver in a 190.
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ILGLEANER
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Willow Hill,ILL Points: 6442 |
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180/190/190xt is 19 1/8 inches wide inside the frame rails Tom.
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Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
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ILGLEANER
Orange Level Access Joined: 13 Sep 2009 Location: Willow Hill,ILL Points: 6442 |
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There are 2 different types of front bolsters for 190s. The solid one, or the interchangeable one.
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Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated.
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Mike Plotner
Orange Level Joined: 02 Apr 2014 Location: Central Ohio Points: 1577 |
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I noticed the same. On my 190 XT I changed the front end out last winter. Old one kept busting on both rear corners. Hadn't been abused in its life. Couldn't tell how many times grandpa, dad and I each welded on that axle |
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2001 Gleaner R42, 1978 7060, 1977 7000, 1966 190 XT, 1966 D-17 Series IV and 1952 WD and more keep my farm running!
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tomstractorsandtoys
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Location: wi Points: 515 |
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The 3020-4020 steering measures in at 18 7/8 so it would fit inside the frame rails. I really think this is a doable project. If I can find a cheap 190 latter this summer I might just give it a try. Tom
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4645 |
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The whole reason I started this post is because I love the look of the narrow front. Our ground is for the most part flat. I know the dangers of the narrow front, had a neighbor die in a roll over on a Farmall M. There have been lots of great information passed on of which I appreciate. Just a shame they are imposible to find. I have access to an interchangeable front, I am assuming all I need is the pedestal.. I haven't seen it yet so again I am assuming. I heard the 4020 may be a possible route but haven't heard of anyone actually doing it. I have done some calling around but haven't had any luck in finding a pedestal which is why I made the post. It's on my wish list but not a necessity. Thanks to everyone for their imput.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4645 |
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Tom if you find that the Deere setup would work I would be interested in your offer. Where are you located?
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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tomstractorsandtoys
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Feb 2015 Location: wi Points: 515 |
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I am in southern WI. Buy the way with your address do you know Allen Summers? Years ago Dad sold him maybe a dozen or more allis tractors. Tom
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190man
Bronze Level Joined: 05 Dec 2015 Location: indiana Points: 46 |
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I have a 1965 190 with a interchangeable frontend.Has widefront wouldn't mine having a narrow front myself'
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AC720Man
Orange Level Joined: 10 Oct 2016 Location: Shenandoah, Va Points: 4645 |
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Yes I know of him. Lives about 15 miles away in Luray Va. He has quite a few AC's. our area had quite a few AC dealers. Local one was Louderback Implement. Kenny Louderbacki sold the dealer to his son. still pulling, I think he is 76 years old now. He is still quite the collector and a good friend of mine.
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1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD
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JC-WI
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33658 |
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My one XT has the interchangeable bolster but I too need the pedestal narrow front.
Last year I had a chance to buy some rollamatic narrow fronts and they went for cheap... and I didn't think about retrofitting them to my XT. Now I need to keep my eyes open the next time I see one for sale... Got a sad story, about 1993 I was in a fellows private junkyard and he had a couple old WC tractors taken apart, one with a scintella base mag mount, and another was a 36 model. he also had several narrow front pedestals for D15 / D17 and one solid curved orange hunk... and I was on my way out when I spotted it. Thought I would ask about it and the WC tractors the next time I was in the yard... Yea, went back in awhile later and he had loaded it up and hauled it to the big scrap yards. ARRGH and so were the WC's. I asked why did you haul them pieces away? "oh. they were in my way". DOUBLE AARGH!!! And now I don't remember what we had gone there to get the first time. |
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
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DougG
Orange Level Joined: 20 Sep 2009 Location: Mo Points: 7946 |
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Alot of them got scrapped in the years before collecting became an art of preservation of the good stuff!
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Mrgoodwrench
Orange Level Joined: 03 Apr 2011 Location: CHICORA PA Points: 2081 |
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Any info or pics of how the Oliver narrow front was made to fit....I have three 190xts here now and two Ollie front pedistols from 1850s sitting in the shed. Might be a fun project.
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There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!!
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JC-WI
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 33658 |
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Well, I do not believe the front pedestal will fit from an oliver to a 190, the center turned and the outside is bolted solid where as the 190 /180 were solid cast peds and bolted to the flange under the bolster that turned.
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
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