190XT narrow front
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=135811
Printed Date: 28 Apr 2024 at 1:40pm
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Topic: 190XT narrow front
Posted By: AC720Man
Subject: 190XT narrow front
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 8:40am
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I know this is a long shot but does anyone have a narrow front end for sale for a 190XT? I would like to convert mine to a narrow front. Are there any other series that used the same front end that may also work? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Replies:
Posted By: DSeries4
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 8:53am
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Definitely a long shot. Good luck with that. Early 180s apparently had an internal steering cylinder in the front casting for this purpose. Don't know if it would fit an XT though.
------------- '49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080 |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 12:45pm
| 180-190-190XT. Lines will differ on 180. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 12:51pm
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I don't know what all is involved withe swap, if anyone has a narrow front i would like to have some up close pictures please. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 12:53pm
| The whole cast iron front support under the radiator gets swapped when going to a NF. |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 2:11pm
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Thanks DrAllis, I thought that would be the case. So are you saying a 180 narrow front would also work? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 2:32pm
| Yes they will, 180,190 all the same size, four bolts hold it to the frame and other stuff has to be taken off but it's all the same |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 2:39pm
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Thank you, happen to know if anyone has one for sale? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 4:50pm
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If I may, and I am sure I will be blasted for offering a different opinion. There was only one front housings for the 190/190xt tractor. That being said, the tractor could be ordered with the front support "loaded" with the power steering ram inside, misc. lines a steering spindle etc. this version of the front housing was called an "Interchangeable front axle". The other option was the same front housing, missing the internal parts, replaced with an external mounted steering cylinder, and a steering arm pivot mounted on the front end assembly itself under the oil pan. The latter is what you find on most tractors, likely because it was cheaper, and by that time most all row crop tractors were running wide fronts, with few narrows left in the world, so what was the point, likely a question asked by many a farmer ordering the tractors new. The front end housing with the internal steering 1. was a better design in that it kept forces off the front end which IMO added to breaking so many front ends, or could be the sole reason. 2. allowed the use of the narrow front wheel assembly. We have an interchangeable front 190xt, been a family tractor since new, have the receipts from the family dealership, and know it's history. Yes we have the narrow front to got with it, and no it's not for sale!  If we could find a real single front, that would be awesome, but never going to happen.------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: ac fleet
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 6:41pm
| A guy about 60 miles North of me has one but don't think he would sell it!---with narrow front you could probably use the late ac mounted corn picker. thanks; ac fleet |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 6:57pm
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First wondering is, Is it possible to "barrow" a narrow front for a 190 and use it to make some green castings and then get them machined out for those that want the front support... Which leads to the second wonder somebody asked awhile ago,.. would it be possible to make an adapter that would accept the JD rollomatic off of a JD 4010 or 4020... or 730... might be easier on the front support. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 05 Mar 2017 at 7:57pm
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I have a Narrow Front OneNinety. The power steering lines run along the left side above the removable side panel. The standard wide fronts have the lines and hydraulic hoses run down the right side frame rail to the steering cylinder. Interestingly the BeachMaster OneNinetys have the internal steering convertible front casting. Because of the short spindles and the job application it was likely so the hydraulic lines would not get snagged on any beach debris. Also not for sale! ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 7:18am
| The "inter-changeable" front support was an OPTION and cost more $$$$$$$$. Allis-Chalmers probably sold more tractors with wide fronts than anyone, and partly because of lower cost. Broken wide front axle frames at the left rear corner could have been eliminated with 5 lbs of extra steel bracing and interestingly only about 50% ever break. Makes me think those that were broken were somehow used more stressfully than others ?? I'll take the external cylinder any day over the internal design for simplicity and ease of repairs when needed. |
Posted By: JayIN
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 9:14am
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We (me) dropped our XT wide front in a blown out tile hole and broke the left rear corner.At night plowing new rented ground. Dad just laughed and said"the worst thing that ever happened to agriculture was putting headlight on tractors.Now you can hire the town drunk and farm twice as much" I dont Think he meant me...........????? ------------- sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?" |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 10:18am
When I lived out in Colorado, there was a blown up 190xt near me that I tried to buy, but they were not able to sell it because of legal troubles I think. It was a wet bolster, interchangeable front end tractor, series 1. Seems like it was a 66 by sn. I have often wondered what ever happened to that one, I've been gone from there for well over 20 years. It had a wide front, and a cab. Was a few miles south of Roggen on the east side of the road. Sat there for years! ------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Orange Blood wrote:Posted By: tomstractorsandtoys
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 1:19pm
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I have been reading this post with interest as I like the looks of a narrow front 190.I just went to the AGCO site and printed the parts page for the narrow front 190. The design and looks of the front boltster is almost the same as the Deere used in 3010,3020,4010 and 4020's. I couldn't believe how close to the same it looks. Could someone tell me what the width of a 190 is? Are the xt's the same? I have several Deere steering assemblies and do believe they could be made to fit. I would even donate one to someone who could do the machining to make it work.They would be heavy to ship.Unless the Deere is to wide I think it is a very doable project. Does anyone know the height of the Allis pedestal? I have a few Deere rollomatic front ends that I could measure as well. Someday I want a 190 and if this project will work I might sell my D15 and start hunting for one. Anyone with any ideas post back. Tom |
Posted By: Dale-OH
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 1:29pm
| I had a customer who used one out of an oliver in a 190. |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 6:38pm
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180/190/190xt is 19 1/8 inches wide inside the frame rails Tom. ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: ILGLEANER
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 6:39pm
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There are 2 different types of front bolsters for 190s. The solid one, or the interchangeable one. ------------- Education doesn't make you smart, it makes you educated. |
Posted By: Mike Plotner
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 6:58pm
I noticed the same. On my 190 XT I changed the front end out last winter. Old one kept busting on both rear corners. Hadn't been abused in its life. Couldn't tell how many times grandpa, dad and I each welded on that axle ------------- 2001 Gleaner R42, 1978 7060, 1977 7000, 1966 190 XT, 1966 D-17 Series IV and 1952 WD and more keep my farm running! |
Posted By: tomstractorsandtoys
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 7:02pm
| The 3020-4020 steering measures in at 18 7/8 so it would fit inside the frame rails. I really think this is a doable project. If I can find a cheap 190 latter this summer I might just give it a try. Tom |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 8:02pm
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The whole reason I started this post is because I love the look of the narrow front. Our ground is for the most part flat. I know the dangers of the narrow front, had a neighbor die in a roll over on a Farmall M. There have been lots of great information passed on of which I appreciate. Just a shame they are imposible to find. I have access to an interchangeable front, I am assuming all I need is the pedestal.. I haven't seen it yet so again I am assuming. I heard the 4020 may be a possible route but haven't heard of anyone actually doing it. I have done some calling around but haven't had any luck in finding a pedestal which is why I made the post. It's on my wish list but not a necessity. Thanks to everyone for their imput. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 8:12pm
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Tom if you find that the Deere setup would work I would be interested in your offer. Where are you located? ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: tomstractorsandtoys
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 8:35pm
| I am in southern WI. Buy the way with your address do you know Allen Summers? Years ago Dad sold him maybe a dozen or more allis tractors. Tom |
Posted By: 190man
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 8:42pm
| I have a 1965 190 with a interchangeable frontend.Has widefront wouldn't mine having a narrow front myself' |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 8:56pm
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Yes I know of him. Lives about 15 miles away in Luray Va. He has quite a few AC's. our area had quite a few AC dealers. Local one was Louderback Implement. Kenny Louderbacki sold the dealer to his son. still pulling, I think he is 76 years old now. He is still quite the collector and a good friend of mine. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 9:00pm
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My one XT has the interchangeable bolster but I too need the pedestal narrow front. Last year I had a chance to buy some rollamatic narrow fronts and they went for cheap... and I didn't think about retrofitting them to my XT.  Now I need to keep my eyes open the next time I see one for sale...Got a sad story, about 1993 I was in a fellows private junkyard and he had a couple old WC tractors taken apart, one with a scintella base mag mount, and another was a 36 model. he also had several narrow front pedestals for D15 / D17 and one solid curved orange hunk... and I was on my way out when I spotted it. Thought I would ask about it and the WC tractors the next time I was in the yard... Yea, went back in awhile later and he had loaded it up and hauled it to the big scrap yards. ARRGH and so were the WC's. I asked why did you haul them pieces away? "oh. they were in my way". DOUBLE AARGH!!! And now I don't remember what we had gone there to get the first time. ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 9:22pm
| Alot of them got scrapped in the years before collecting became an art of preservation of the good stuff! |
Posted By: Mrgoodwrench
Date Posted: 06 Mar 2017 at 11:32pm
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Any info or pics of how the Oliver narrow front was made to fit....I have three 190xts here now and two Ollie front pedistols from 1850s sitting in the shed. Might be a fun project. ------------- There are 3 ways to do job GOOD, FAST, CHEAP. YOU MAY CHOOSE 2. If its FAST & CHEAP it won't be GOOD, if it's GOOD & CHEAP it won't be FAST, and if its GOOD & FAST it won't be CHEAP!!!! |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 07 Mar 2017 at 9:14am
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Well, I do not believe the front pedestal will fit from an oliver to a 190, the center turned and the outside is bolted solid where as the 190 /180 were solid cast peds and bolted to the flange under the bolster that turned.
------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 29 Apr 2018 at 1:30am
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Just gotta ask this again, does anyone have a front pedestal that they will let it be copied to make some sand castings from? Or supply some dimensions and make a narrow front from some square heavy walled tubing and a plate to fit the steering spindle shaft flange and wled the plate and tubing together. Then find an old narrow front for some farmall like 806 and shove that up the tube and form the end of tubing around spindles and weld solid.  ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 29 Sep 2018 at 3:01am
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I acquired this piece of iron,  It is the heavy duty JD Roll-O-Matic unit for the 3020, 4020, 4320. Will that be a sacrilege to mount this to an AC??? Please Don't answer that question. Or maybe clean it up and paint it orange??? Think somebody would notice? Now to see if an adapter can be made... S'pose I need to find some hubs too. 
------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2018 at 8:23pm
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Adapter can be made, it will work, but damned if I’m putting green on my AC. Won’t take someone to see the rollamatic. Lol, shame someone doesn’t reproduce them. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2018 at 8:58pm
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Thanks AC720man... You rather have a rougher ride...  And painting it orange and maybe toss a cover shield over it wouldn't help?  I tried to get somebody to loan me one of their Narrow fronts to make a casting of it to reproduce a few of them... guaranteed it wouldn't be cheap.... and not a peep from anyone. So, making an adapter plate is about the next best thing... ...and a Ford 8000/9000 narrow front wasn't an option either at $3032 dollars...   ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 01 Oct 2018 at 9:13pm
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How far off are the WD/WD45 bolt on NF or D17? |
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2018 at 8:17am
Different design. You Could weld the center shaft in place and make a plate to bolt on the pedestal to the 190 bolster. Not sure how strong it would be. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2018 at 4:47pm
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Friend I saw yesterday had a WD-45 NF in a OneNinety puller. Just added a 3/8" spacer on each side. Didn't think to ask but must have had an orbit motor coupled to the steering shaft. Another friend is thinking of casting some OneNinety pedestals ------------- Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed |
Posted By: hillmonkey
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2018 at 5:13pm
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bolster for sale in classifieds https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/allis-190-narrow-front-upper-bolster-housing_topic154296.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/allis-190-narrow-front-upper-bolster-housing_topic154296.html
|
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2018 at 8:06pm
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JC, I feel your pain as I also had looked at the Deere option but keep holding out for the real thing. Such a shame they are so hard to find and not reproduced. I have seen a D-19 pedestal used, as Charlie said the center has to be welded in place so it can rotate as the 190 did. Not sure if it’s strong enough for farming applications but would be fine for a show tractor. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: grinder220
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2018 at 8:40pm
| I wonder if the pedestal off a M670-G1000 moline would work. I should measure. They're not so hard to come by. |
Posted By: JC-WI
Date Posted: 02 Oct 2018 at 11:49pm
Grinder, I don't know what a 670 has for a narrow front, but the
M5/602 has a slot system and a tightening bolt to suck it in. Got the
three fronts for the M5... G900/1000 might be doable, but man, ever see
the weight of them sitting on those small tires? All I can see them
things headed for china if the ground was just remotely wet. S'pose it would not be any worse than a 170 AC with 7.50x16 tires with a 1800# bale out front hanging on the loader.   How about a Case 930-1070?  Man, all them pedestals look like they would snap right off, and the Allis's 190 looks real beefy in comparison. Looked at farmall front ends, and they look kinda weak too... Got four narrow fronts of them, and they look almost like they could take some strain for the M, and then the 400 Farmall pedestal looks just like the others, but bigger spindles. All four have different numbers on them. maybe a 806 pedestal would work... ... red paint might be as bad as green paint? ------------- He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 8:38pm
|
JC I would certainly be interested in the casting cost. It is a heavy made piece, I was really impressed after finally seeing one at the PA sale. Much more robust than say a D19 or a Deere rollamatic. AC had switched over to wide fronts when others were still offering narrow fronts on a larger scale. It was an expensive option and most went with wide front ends. The neat thing with the zipper front end, you could have a wide front end or a narrow front end in just a few hours. Apparently not many pedestals were sold. I still plan on installing my zipper with or without a pedestal. It’s bound to make my XT more valuable. IMO of course. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: Gary
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2018 at 9:26pm
|
check classified https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/allis-190-narrow-front-upper-bolster-housing_topic154296_post1283037.html?KW=#1283037" rel="nofollow - https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/allis-190-narrow-front-upper-bolster-housing_topic154296_post1283037.html?KW=#1283037 |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 06 Oct 2018 at 10:28pm
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I have a zipper, need the pedestal. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: PA185
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2020 at 1:21am
| Did anyone ever get anywhere with some castings or peruse the idea? I have a 185 puller I really want to put a NF under, but at a 10k asking price I’ve found 2 at there is no way |
Posted By: AC720Man
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2020 at 10:09am
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Glad you brought my post up again. I still have a zipper with no pedestal...haven’t heard from anyone on this so apparently no one had any luck. ------------- 1968 B-208, 1976 720 (2 of them)Danco brush hog, single bottom plow,52" snow thrower, belly mower,rear tine tiller, rear blade, front blade, 57"sickle bar,1983 917 hydro, 1968 7hp sno-bee, 1968 190XTD |
Posted By: CORLEWFARM
Date Posted: 30 Sep 2020 at 7:35pm
| A 706 or 806 ih can work If you grind a little bit off of the ih frontend and drill new holes in rails. A jd will work too but the rollamatic frontend don't look right. |
Posted By: David (in Mi.)
Date Posted: 05 Oct 2020 at 11:51pm
| rollamatic was a option. I have a john deere straight spindle, without rollamatic. |