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Branger 
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 Topic: Transmission repair on 8070
Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 7:04am |
Anyone know approximately how many dealer hours would be expected for this powershift transmission repair on an 8070? The repair is done, but I am shocked by the labor bill.
"Front nut fell off" caused the problem. They diagnosed and determined the problem was internal, so they split the tractor, rebuilt the clutches, put in all new bearings and gaskets. The front housing was worn, so I had a local fabrication shop separate from the dealer repair this part.
The same repair bill also included installing new injectors, adjusting valves and replacing an A/C hose.
Total parts were $3500. Any idea on labor hours?
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Charlie175
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Joined: 11 Sep 2009
Location: Shenandoah, VA
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Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 7:19am |
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Charlie
'48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD
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DrAllis
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Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 7:42am |
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A lot of variables here....full of fuel?? or near empty?? tanks have to be drained completely.....30 to 40 hrs for the tranny alone and another day for the other stuff.
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DougG
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Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:14am |
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A BUNCH OF HOURS AND A HUGE LABOR BILL !!!!They had alot of work to do though,
Edited by DougG - 13 Jun 2011 at 8:37am
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Branger
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Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:29am |
How about 146 hours? No kidding. That's what they charged. That equals one guy at 3 1/2 weeks straight.
How do I approach this with them?
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DougG
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Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:39am |
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Wow , didnt think that much , holy crap , did they have a newer guy maybe doin simple stuff ? Is the labor rate per hr all the same amount ? Somethings out of wack there
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bobkyllo
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Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:48am |
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i was thinking more along the lines of like 45 to 50 hours. i would never have thought 146 hours. as far as approaching them i would just come right out and ask them if that is right. if they say yes i would probably tell them that figure is nuts.
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MACK
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Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 9:42pm |
Did you get a KISS?
40 Hrs. would be about right for all of it. I have done them for less. MACK
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 10:01pm |
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146 hrs isn't bad if they only charged you $25/hr!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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MACK
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Posted: 14 Jun 2011 at 6:55am |
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146 hrs. at 10.00 hr would be about wright. MACK
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Smokey Joe
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Location: Tennessee
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Posted: 16 Jun 2011 at 3:30pm |
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Sounds like you need to find another shop 30-40 hrs tops!!!
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210,220,7010 AC,7020 AC,7040 AC,7045 Pedal Tractor, 8050& 8070 and Parts and Pieces of Many More!!!
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Orange Blood
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Location: ColoradoSprings
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Posted: 16 Jun 2011 at 5:53pm |
Did that include coffe breaks?! :=)
I agree way out of line!!! We did about the same thing to a 7060 once, and a bunch of work to the rear end, and it may have been apart for 3-4 weeks, but most of that time didn't see any work, as we were waiting on parts! I would say absolute tops was 2 men a week, so 80 hours. Sounds like one of two things, either no experiance with this tractor at all, on the phone with tech line all the time, or they are lying to you!!!!!
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Branger
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Posted: 17 Jun 2011 at 10:16pm |
Here is an update after discussing it in detail with the service manager. He found their old A-C warranty books, and told me that the book calls for 84 hours on the transmission rebuild, 22 hours on the injector job, 12 hours on the valve adjustment (I think I forgot to mention this repair in the original post). He says they had an additional 6 hours in the diagnosis of the transmission problem. This equals 124 hours, and he says the other 22 hours make up the air conditioner hose as well as drilling out and retapping a broken valve cover bolt.
He says he may be able to get the owner to take 10% off the labor bill. By the way the shop rate is $75 per hour, so I am looking at a nearly $11K labor bill on this.
What I can't quite stomach is that is takes 22 hours to do the injectors and 12 hours to adjust the valves on this tractor. I have no idea on the 84 hours called for on the transmission. I just know that I have split this tractor myself to replace the rear main seal and torque limiter, and with me following the manual and not knowing what I was doing, I had the tractor split in 3 or 4 hours and put back together in another 2 hours.
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Ryan Renko
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Posted: 17 Jun 2011 at 10:23pm |
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I hear you Branger!! My father has a soft spot in his heart for our 1950 WD since it was the first "new" tractor he ever had. He took it to the dealer to do work on a leaking area in the clutch shaft area and the bill was almost $3000 dollars!! The freakin tractor aint worth that much!! But to my father, memories are priceless I guess. WOW!! Ryan
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DrAllis
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Posted: 17 Jun 2011 at 10:35pm |
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Warranty book is closer to 24 hrs on the trans rebuild on a 7040.
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Rfdeere
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 12:32am |
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I don't know about the Trans, but all the rest shouldn't have been more than ten hours of labor by a decent Mechanic. Was this an Agco Dealer ? Who ? Where ?
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Chris/CT
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 6:17am |
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I would ask to see there AC Book for yourself. I'm willing to bet the hours stated are not specific to 1 task, they should be held accountable to you for this overcharge. Are they authorized to just "run" up hours without your approval, I would think not. They should adjust these numbers more in your favor, sounds like your paying for someones inexperience, on job training. If they can't help you out, talk with your Consumer protection peole in state and see if they can help.
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BStone
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 7:45am |
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The same exact thing happened to me on a 7045.Nut came loose and wore the housing.The tractor would not move on it's on.I hired a man to split and pull the trans. im my shop.I took it to a trans. mechanic and he found a used housing and replaced everything in the trans. that needed replacing.Because we didn't quit running the tractor when it started leaking and losing gears it did a lot of damage.The total repair bill was...trans. rebuild + parts and labor was $5100.The man that split...pulled...and replaced the trans. (he got $60. an hr.) was $800.So total everything on trans. was $5900.I thought it was about enough.BStone
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Orange Blood
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 7:51am |
 Branger wrote:
Here is an update after discussing it in detail with the service manager. He found their old A-C warranty books, and told me that the book calls for 84 hours on the transmission rebuild, 22 hours on the injector job, 12 hours on the valve adjustment (I think I forgot to mention this repair in the original post). He says they had an additional 6 hours in the diagnosis of the transmission problem. This equals 124 hours, and he says the other 22 hours make up the air conditioner hose as well as drilling out and retapping a broken valve cover bolt.
He says he may be able to get the owner to take 10% off the labor bill. By the way the shop rate is $75 per hour, so I am looking at a nearly $11K labor bill on this.
What I can't quite stomach is that is takes 22 hours to do the injectors and 12 hours to adjust the valves on this tractor. I have no idea on the 84 hours called for on the transmission. I just know that I have split this tractor myself to replace the rear main seal and torque limiter, and with me following the manual and not knowing what I was doing, I had the tractor split in 3 or 4 hours and put back together in another 2 hours.
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Absolutely insanely stupid.
22 hours to make a hose, and drill out a bolt????????
22 hours to change the injectors, I guarentee that is for full rebuild of injectors, not swapping, out ones they sent out for rebuild?????
12 hours to adjust valves. That shouldn't take 4, and that's with the power wash, and broken bolt!!!!!!! Hell the engine is suppose to be at operating temp for the valve adjust, so he basically told you it wasn't done right.
How long did they actually have the tractor?
Bottom line you found yourself a bad dealer, a theif actually. That's why I won't buy anything but partrs from what I call STEALERS!!! Granted not all are bad, but a good measure are.
You are getting SCREWED!!!!!!
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Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Kcgrain
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 8:46am |
The service manager is Bull shipping you about the labor time in the AC manual, and If I was you I would call him out on it, besides you should be charged for actual labor not some book time. There is no way possible it would take 12 hrs to adjust the valves on an 8070 1.2 maybe, so if he is lying about that time he is lying about the rest, tell him your going to get yourself a lawyer, my guess is the time will be corrected.There are laws in place to protect the consumer, and this guys a crook.These dealerships like to pull this crap so you upgrade to a new tractor, under the pretence that its too expensive to keep this old stuff running. Tell them Geraldo Rivera is your best friend and hes coming to make a report LOL.
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farmtoybuilder
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 8:56am |
I think Service Manager made a few mistakes when looking them up!!!!!!!! Those hours are totally to many for all! But especially the air conditioner, Injectors, valves and broken bolt. Even a new inexperienced mechanic wouldn't take that long with a helper!
I would get the flat rate codes and hours from another dealer and have a talk with them and if that don't work, go to better business bureau.
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5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them.
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GBACBFan
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 8:57am |
A good example of why it is good to get estimates proir to doing the work, and insisting on approval to proceed for any additional needed work found. It's pretty bad when the repair costs can reach or exceed the value of the tractor.
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DougG
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 9:24am |
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I think he may be figuring wrong with the Flat Rate Manual , they can be hard to follow when it takes some many hours to split , so many to remove tranny etc ; i believe some hours got combined with the different processes ; jmho ; It all takes time - not that much though, also that kills me when you know they want to sell a new tractor and they act like its such a big deal to get parts, repair yours ; thats why I do what i can by myself , its alot cheaper !! Try to reason with them - it should be plain that its too many hours , but it also who you are dealing with, good luck
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Nathan (SD)
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 10:37am |
In the last week I know 2 people personally getting smacked bad on labor charges. The One a JD dealer and the other a IH. Both guys said yeah it sucks. But the key point is they both paid. So all colors do it. I think the shop people are subliminally trying to cash in on their share of the price spike in grains.
All shops around this area have a month backlog, all year round. Most guys are happy to pay whatever it costs to get stuff fixed. I know a one man show that works out of his pickup. He turns down more jobs than he accepts. He has commented that he could be charging alot more and most people wouldn't blink a bit.
Now if Brangers shop is used to gouging people and watching them still smile when they leave. He is gonna have a hard time getting any reprieve on his bill.
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Dave in il
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Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 11:06pm |
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The shop is a profit center, this was a very profitable job.
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 19 Jun 2011 at 9:25am |
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I have an I&T flat rate manual. up through 7080, so very similar machine. Engine tune, complete: 10.3hrs, re-time injection pump, compression check, remove and re-install injectors and check on pop tester, disassemble & clean injectors and reset opening pressure. adjust valve tappets. check boost pressure. this is just an example of how flat rates work. The flat rate to rebuild 6 injectors at the fuel injection shop I work at is 217.50. (2.5 flat rate hours, @87/hr) somebody is bull$hitting you! there is no way any manufacturer's warranty rates would be that generous on time! apparently the service manager is paid commission! wrong way to do business.
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Codger
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Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 3:52pm |
There is one of these in the shop now where the front nut came loose and the main case is destroyed. Parts are getting very hard to source and much is discontinued via AGCO. Right now the anticipated bill is approaching $20K with a used case and the owner is very much in the loop as to progress and cost. He wants it done and not have another problem with it.
Hauling it in last fall as it would lose gears and become very noisy as the transmission warmed to temperature. I had no problem loading it and really didn't know what it was coming in for:
Transmission case, and main shaft hurt:
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 4:35pm |
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Well, I've probably done about six of those over the years. Always had the case sleeved and bored back to size. Never replaced that input shaft. New seal rings and some time with a file and emery cloth.
I always Loctite the new nut and stake it so it can NEVER come loose. It will take a sharp chisel to split the nut to get it back off, but that's fine with me as I've never had to take one of my repaired tranny's back apart.
Edited by DrAllis - 15 Jan 2022 at 4:37pm
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Codger
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Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 4:59pm |
My thoughts also so this main case was sent out to a competent machine shop and they have found a crack someplace in it also? The input shaft is worn out of round and another has been located. Many parts are NLA through AGCO and even a few aftermarket vendors have limited availability. Appears to have been ran this way for quite a spell.
Here is another I hauled in for them. They are die hard Allis-Chalmers fans and don't mind rebuilding things to make them right:
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DrAllis
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Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 5:21pm |
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A crack in any of my housings wasn't even considered. Everything was OK fine until the nut backed off. Out of round on that nose would depend how much, as the sealing rings seal on the sides and the O.D. Why would a little out of round make any difference?? in the sealing ring area ?? Don't know how long they ran it with issues. All my guys knew something was wrong and used a telephone to come get it.
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