Transmission repair on 8070
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32150
Printed Date: 22 May 2025 at 8:18am
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Topic: Transmission repair on 8070
Posted By: Branger
Subject: Transmission repair on 8070
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 7:04am
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Anyone know approximately how many dealer hours would be expected for this powershift transmission repair on an 8070? The repair is done, but I am shocked by the labor bill.
"Front nut fell off" caused the problem. They diagnosed and determined the problem was internal, so they split the tractor, rebuilt the clutches, put in all new bearings and gaskets. The front housing was worn, so I had a local fabrication shop separate from the dealer repair this part.
The same repair bill also included installing new injectors, adjusting valves and replacing an A/C hose.
Total parts were $3500. Any idea on labor hours?
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Replies:
Posted By: Charlie175
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 7:19am
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18 hrs @ $60/hr My guess. ------------- Charlie '48 B, '51 CA, '56 WD45 '61 D17, '63 D12, '65 D10 , '68 One-Ninety XTD |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 7:42am
| A lot of variables here....full of fuel?? or near empty?? tanks have to be drained completely.....30 to 40 hrs for the tranny alone and another day for the other stuff. |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:14am
| A BUNCH OF HOURS AND A HUGE LABOR BILL !!!!They had alot of work to do though, |
Posted By: Branger
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:29am
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How about 146 hours? No kidding. That's what they charged. That equals one guy at 3 1/2 weeks straight.
How do I approach this with them?
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:39am
| Wow , didnt think that much , holy crap , did they have a newer guy maybe doin simple stuff ? Is the labor rate per hr all the same amount ? Somethings out of wack there |
Posted By: bobkyllo
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 8:48am
| i was thinking more along the lines of like 45 to 50 hours. i would never have thought 146 hours. as far as approaching them i would just come right out and ask them if that is right. if they say yes i would probably tell them that figure is nuts. |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 9:42pm
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Did you get a KISS?
40 Hrs. would be about right for all of it. I have done them for less. MACK
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Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 13 Jun 2011 at 10:01pm
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146 hrs isn't bad if they only charged you $25/hr!
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2011 at 6:55am
| 146 hrs. at 10.00 hr would be about wright. MACK |
Posted By: Smokey Joe
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2011 at 3:30pm
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Sounds like you need to find another shop 30-40 hrs tops!!! ------------- 210,220,7010 AC,7020 AC,7040 AC,7045 Pedal Tractor, 8050& 8070 and Parts and Pieces of Many More!!! |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2011 at 5:53pm
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Did that include coffe breaks?! :=)
I agree way out of line!!! We did about the same thing to a 7060 once, and a bunch of work to the rear end, and it may have been apart for 3-4 weeks, but most of that time didn't see any work, as we were waiting on parts! I would say absolute tops was 2 men a week, so 80 hours. Sounds like one of two things, either no experiance with this tractor at all, on the phone with tech line all the time, or they are lying to you!!!!! ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Posted By: Branger
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2011 at 10:16pm
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Here is an update after discussing it in detail with the service manager. He found their old A-C warranty books, and told me that the book calls for 84 hours on the transmission rebuild, 22 hours on the injector job, 12 hours on the valve adjustment (I think I forgot to mention this repair in the original post). He says they had an additional 6 hours in the diagnosis of the transmission problem. This equals 124 hours, and he says the other 22 hours make up the air conditioner hose as well as drilling out and retapping a broken valve cover bolt.
He says he may be able to get the owner to take 10% off the labor bill. By the way the shop rate is $75 per hour, so I am looking at a nearly $11K labor bill on this.
What I can't quite stomach is that is takes 22 hours to do the injectors and 12 hours to adjust the valves on this tractor. I have no idea on the 84 hours called for on the transmission. I just know that I have split this tractor myself to replace the rear main seal and torque limiter, and with me following the manual and not knowing what I was doing, I had the tractor split in 3 or 4 hours and put back together in another 2 hours.
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Posted By: Ryan Renko
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2011 at 10:23pm
| I hear you Branger!! My father has a soft spot in his heart for our 1950 WD since it was the first "new" tractor he ever had. He took it to the dealer to do work on a leaking area in the clutch shaft area and the bill was almost $3000 dollars!! The freakin tractor aint worth that much!! But to my father, memories are priceless I guess. WOW!! Ryan |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2011 at 10:35pm
| Warranty book is closer to 24 hrs on the trans rebuild on a 7040. |
Posted By: Rfdeere
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 12:32am
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I don't know about the Trans, but all the rest shouldn't have been more than ten hours of labor by a decent Mechanic. Was this an Agco Dealer ? Who ? Where ? ------------- Randy Freshour,Member Indiana AC Partners, http://www.rumelyallis.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.rumelyallis.com |
Posted By: Chris/CT
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 6:17am
| I would ask to see there AC Book for yourself. I'm willing to bet the hours stated are not specific to 1 task, they should be held accountable to you for this overcharge. Are they authorized to just "run" up hours without your approval, I would think not. They should adjust these numbers more in your favor, sounds like your paying for someones inexperience, on job training. If they can't help you out, talk with your Consumer protection peole in state and see if they can help. |
Posted By: BStone
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 7:45am
| The same exact thing happened to me on a 7045.Nut came loose and wore the housing.The tractor would not move on it's on.I hired a man to split and pull the trans. im my shop.I took it to a trans. mechanic and he found a used housing and replaced everything in the trans. that needed replacing.Because we didn't quit running the tractor when it started leaking and losing gears it did a lot of damage.The total repair bill was...trans. rebuild + parts and labor was $5100.The man that split...pulled...and replaced the trans. (he got $60. an hr.) was $800.So total everything on trans. was $5900.I thought it was about enough.BStone |
Posted By: Orange Blood
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 7:51am
22 hours to make a hose, and drill out a bolt????????
22 hours to change the injectors, I guarentee that is for full rebuild of injectors, not swapping, out ones they sent out for rebuild?????
12 hours to adjust valves. That shouldn't take 4, and that's with the power wash, and broken bolt!!!!!!! Hell the engine is suppose to be at operating temp for the valve adjust, so he basically told you it wasn't done right.
How long did they actually have the tractor?
Bottom line you found yourself a bad dealer, a theif actually. That's why I won't buy anything but partrs from what I call STEALERS!!! Granted not all are bad, but a good measure are.
You are getting SCREWED!!!!!! ------------- Still in use: HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060 Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7 |
Branger wrote:Posted By: Kcgrain
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 8:46am
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The service manager is Bull shipping you about the labor time in the AC manual, and If I was you I would call him out on it, besides you should be charged for actual labor not some book time. There is no way possible it would take 12 hrs to adjust the valves on an 8070 1.2 maybe, so if he is lying about that time he is lying about the rest, tell him your going to get yourself a lawyer, my guess is the time will be corrected.There are laws in place to protect the consumer, and this guys a crook.These dealerships like to pull this crap so you upgrade to a new tractor, under the pretence that its too expensive to keep this old stuff running. Tell them Geraldo Rivera is your best friend and hes coming to make a report LOL. |
Posted By: farmtoybuilder
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 8:56am
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I think Service Manager made a few mistakes when looking them up!!!!!!!! Those hours are totally to many for all! But especially the air conditioner, Injectors, valves and broken bolt. Even a new inexperienced mechanic wouldn't take that long with a helper!
I would get the flat rate codes and hours from another dealer and have a talk with them and if that don't work, go to better business bureau.
------------- 5 different TT-10's,5 TT-18's Terra Tigers,B-10,2 B-207's,B-110,2 B-112's,HB-112,B-210,B-212,HB212,2 Scamp's & Homilite T-10. Still hunting NICE HB-112 & anything Terra Tiger & Trailers for them. |
Posted By: GBACBFan
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 8:57am
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A good example of why it is good to get estimates proir to doing the work, and insisting on approval to proceed for any additional needed work found. It's pretty bad when the repair costs can reach or exceed the value of the tractor. ------------- "The trouble with quotes on the Internet is that you can never know if they are genuine." - Mark Twain |
Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 9:24am
| I think he may be figuring wrong with the Flat Rate Manual , they can be hard to follow when it takes some many hours to split , so many to remove tranny etc ; i believe some hours got combined with the different processes ; jmho ; It all takes time - not that much though, also that kills me when you know they want to sell a new tractor and they act like its such a big deal to get parts, repair yours ; thats why I do what i can by myself , its alot cheaper !! Try to reason with them - it should be plain that its too many hours , but it also who you are dealing with, good luck |
Posted By: Nathan (SD)
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 10:37am
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In the last week I know 2 people personally getting smacked bad on labor charges. The One a JD dealer and the other a IH. Both guys said yeah it sucks. But the key point is they both paid. So all colors do it. I think the shop people are subliminally trying to cash in on their share of the price spike in grains. All shops around this area have a month backlog, all year round. Most guys are happy to pay whatever it costs to get stuff fixed. I know a one man show that works out of his pickup. He turns down more jobs than he accepts. He has commented that he could be charging alot more and most people wouldn't blink a bit.
Now if Brangers shop is used to gouging people and watching them still smile when they leave. He is gonna have a hard time getting any reprieve on his bill.
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Posted By: Dave in il
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2011 at 11:06pm
| The shop is a profit center, this was a very profitable job. |
Posted By: injpumpEd
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2011 at 9:25am
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I have an I&T flat rate manual. up through 7080, so very similar machine. Engine tune, complete: 10.3hrs, re-time injection pump, compression check, remove and re-install injectors and check on pop tester, disassemble & clean injectors and reset opening pressure. adjust valve tappets. check boost pressure. this is just an example of how flat rates work. The flat rate to rebuild 6 injectors at the fuel injection shop I work at is 217.50. (2.5 flat rate hours, @87/hr) somebody is bull$hitting you! there is no way any manufacturer's warranty rates would be that generous on time! apparently the service manager is paid commission! wrong way to do business.
------------- 210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers! |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 3:52pm
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There is one of these in the shop now where the front nut came loose and the main case is destroyed. Parts are getting very hard to source and much is discontinued via AGCO. Right now the anticipated bill is approaching $20K with a used case and the owner is very much in the loop as to progress and cost. He wants it done and not have another problem with it. Hauling it in last fall as it would lose gears and become very noisy as the transmission warmed to temperature. I had no problem loading it and really didn't know what it was coming in for:  Transmission case, and main shaft hurt:   |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 4:35pm
| Well, I've probably done about six of those over the years. Always had the case sleeved and bored back to size. Never replaced that input shaft. New seal rings and some time with a file and emery cloth. I always Loctite the new nut and stake it so it can NEVER come loose. It will take a sharp chisel to split the nut to get it back off, but that's fine with me as I've never had to take one of my repaired tranny's back apart. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 4:59pm
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My thoughts also so this main case was sent out to a competent machine shop and they have found a crack someplace in it also? The input shaft is worn out of round and another has been located. Many parts are NLA through AGCO and even a few aftermarket vendors have limited availability. Appears to have been ran this way for quite a spell. Here is another I hauled in for them. They are die hard Allis-Chalmers fans and don't mind rebuilding things to make them right:  |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 5:21pm
| A crack in any of my housings wasn't even considered. Everything was OK fine until the nut backed off. Out of round on that nose would depend how much, as the sealing rings seal on the sides and the O.D. Why would a little out of round make any difference?? in the sealing ring area ?? Don't know how long they ran it with issues. All my guys knew something was wrong and used a telephone to come get it. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 5:31pm
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Really don't know anything about it. I just drive the truck for them on call. Pick up and delivery as a sideline thing to do in retirement. I like to talk to the guys in the shop and find much of this interesting; as always willing to learn something.
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Posted By: Branger
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 5:41pm
| Well, this brings back a 10 year old memory. As Dr. Allis mentioned, I had our housing sleeved and bored without issues, and I actually tack welded the nut in place. My original message noted $3,500 in parts for this whole power shift rebuild. I’d be scared to know that cost today. It sounds like parts availability is becoming scare. I loved the 8070, but I’m glad it’s gone now due to this parts availability issue I hear about with transmission, FWA, and other various parts. |
Posted By: bigal121892
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 6:01pm
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Since you brought it up :), In 1993 We had to go through our 8070, new clutches, updates, etc., and it was $6,600.00. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 15 Jan 2022 at 6:15pm
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I know what you mean. The mechanic told me on Friday the owner has authorized $20K in repairs as he really likes the tractor and doesn't want to look back. Friction and steel discs are still available but there is no "kit" available. The input shaft is NLA, but gaskets and seals are. An NOS drum was located at another dealer and was transferred in. The owner outright rejected a salvage unit from a yard in Kansas as didn't want to "inherit" problems. The 3500 engine in this tractor has been rebuilt and runs very well is probably a large draw also. They also have several 70XX series tractors. Everything is maintained quite well in the grand scheme.
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Posted By: tthams
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 6:36pm
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I know I am jumping in a little late on this post, and I don't know if this information helps at all when going back and discussing the cost with your shop, but I had a 7060 power shift rebuilt on a 7060 (at least still trying to). Here is the cost breakdown from July for what I was charged: Labor: $3,339 at $65/hour Freight: $70.60 Parts $6,686.61 Gas, Oil, Grease $342 Tax: $259.67 Total: $10,695.88
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Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 7:02pm
| Current shop rate is $99.00 an hour. That is $26.00 an hour less than the Deere dealer 8 miles distant. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 7:12pm
| I'd probably bid the job at 40 to 50 hrs max, so 5K in todays labor. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2022 at 8:56pm
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Once this thing concludes I don't mind posting the itemized list and totals, but I will blank out any identifying features of the invoice. I don't think anybody would have a problem with that at all. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 7:13am
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An NOS transmission case has been acquired, as has the input shaft which was the last in inventory anyplace for this transmission. All new clutches, and seals/gaskets are there. I think they are to begin reassembly next week. The cab and sheet metal was taken to an auto body shop, blasted clean and repainted with all new decals I'm told. Also a "cab insulation kit" is being installed this week. There is a new wiring harness for the cab at the dealership yet to be picked up. Basically with the rebuilt engine, rebuilt transmission, sound differentials, and fairly new tires which are installed, it will be a very close to new 8070. He will have close to $30K in the tractor rebuild but it's his "favorite" tractor to use, and much less $$$ than an equal like replacement.
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Posted By: DougG
Date Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 7:11pm
| You, ll have a new machine , kinda ! |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2022 at 7:50pm
Brought in this one today for clean up and service:  Turns out he has Five 8070 MFWA tractors, and a few other, and newer Allis variants and some are shown here:  |
Posted By: EPALLIS
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2022 at 9:13pm
| I had to have my D-17 recently split and I thought the bill was high as well. But guess what, these tractors are 50 years, I couldn't run it like it was any longer, the AGCO dealer was willing to work on and fix it and did a great job and now it runs like a top. Did I enjoy paying the bill, No. However, it means the world to me to have it repaired and running like a top. So, Life is good. Sometimes, it does cost some money to buy happiness and keep Allis-Chalmers in business. And If another A-C can live another day and be productive, so it doesn't end up on a scrap iron barge to China or being parted out, it's worth it. |
Posted By: Codger
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2022 at 6:14am
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They still service many D17, D19, and 190 series tractors often in the shop. Most never complain about the pricing and many of the tractors were purchased there new. Not the same sets of hands working on them for sure, but the customer base is still very viable and reliable. Around here there are a lot of D17 series running mowers, pumps, conveyors, and of course the "chore" tractor etc., but none are front line work tractors any longer. There were so many built, and several aftermarket suppliers that parts supplies haven't really been a problem; albeit expensive at times. I just brought in a really nice Oliver 1700 with a Waukashaw gasoline engine day before yesterday for "refresh" too, so they don't just work on Allis. I use the term "refresh" as these tractors don't get "restored" as that means many different things to different owners.
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