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Rod bearing question

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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Rod bearing question
    Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 6:15pm
I'm wondering why no manufacturer has come out with a replacement rod/rod bearing for older worn crankshafts ( spun bearing or just worn smaller crankshaft) so you wouldn't have to split a tractor to replace crankshaft when worn out? All I read about are once crankshaft/ bearing surfaces are worn then splitting tractor is only option to get tolerance back in check. I realize it would mean a lot more manufacturing but I would pay a premium to not have to split a tractor to replace crankshaft and many others I'm sure.
You would think if one could mic there crankshaft diameter s that then all you would need to do is match as closely as possible with bearings and no need to split machine replace crankshaft! I know this would not be a perfect fix but could give option to costly split. I realize why you do it the standard way but in our fast pace world I can't believe no manufacturer has done something like this?
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DrAllis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 6:55pm
So what kind of bearing would you want made for a crankshaft journal that is worn egg-shaped/oval shaped (not round) ??  or even tapered...worn more on one end than the other. Crankshaft bearing tolerances must be held within a couple of thousands of an inch for successful service life.
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 7:04pm
Ok, gotcha
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HudCo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 7:06pm
would never last long enought to get out of the yard ,and not to mention all of that metal ready to grind somthing easle apart
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 7:07pm
I guess my mind was on one caught early enough before it's wear pattern is terrible
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 7:14pm
I'll bet "Hayes" could could come up with a solution as they have with fasteners:



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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 7:18pm
Older motors like the B and C farm tractors had shimmed bearings.. Maybe .006 inch per side... So if you had a couple thousands wear, you could take out a shim or two to tighten them up..... Newer motors normally have no shims and they do make aftermarket bearings that are .010 , .020 oversize and you machine a worn crank so those will fit.... So if your talking .002 -3 wear i see your point... but at some point the wear is EGG SHAPED and your not doing yourself any favors by not pulling the crank.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Hunt4Allis View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 9:04pm
Ok, so it may be possible to only need rod bearing if they sell undersized shims if not egg shaped. Or a knock sound could be a broken ring or something else...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1963D17 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Feb 2022 at 11:06pm
Allis offered .002 undersize bearings at one time. I installed a set in a WD45 20-25 years ago. IH still does for the 460 thru 706 gas and diesels. I sold a lot of those back in the day. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 4:41am
Hmmm, ok so it may be worth looking into if I need or can utilize and undersized bearing on my G188D motor. She's a smoker and I bet at a minimum it needs a upper half overhaul kit, would cracking line loose on each cylinder for the injectors tell me if that cylinder is one making noise by stopping it from firing?( I'm trying to figure the theory of doing that one out!Thanks for the info
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 7:10am
If it needs an "upper half overhaul kit" and rod bearings, why not do it right and rebuild the whole engine. I'm betting you would be a lot happier in the long run.

Every time I have seen a partial engine rebuild job, it has turned out to be an eventual nightmare. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Les Kerf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 8:20am
As mentioned above, many older engines (not just AC) were designed to allow bearing adjustment using shims; about 20 years ago I did an in-frame freshen-up on a neighbor's Model M Farmall using 0.002" undersize rod bearings. It still runs fine.

I freshened up my 1941 John Deere Model A about 30 years ago; it has the poured babbitt rod bearings with shim adjustment. I forget how many shims I removed, but it wasn't over 0.003" or 0.004". I'm pretty sure my grandson will still be running it after I am long gone.

Some years ago an old retired mechanic friend was cleaning out his shop as he was downsizing; he showed me some tapered shims for putting underneath rod bearing shells. He said he hadn't done that in many years though. I wish that I had asked him for them just as memorabilia.

I have seen rods that someone filed the caps by hand to tighten up bearing clearances. The engines ran successfully for many years, but I still do not recommend it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 9:00am
Everything I've researched says if rod bearing are bad the noise gets louder with rpm( mine doesn't get louder so I'm tempted to do a oil/ filter change, add some Lucas high milage oil stabilizer and see if it quiets down)

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 01 Mar 2022 at 9:01am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 9:03am
What is a G188-D engine ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 9:33am
50 hp-4 cylinder diesel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IBWD MIke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 9:36am
Originally posted by Codger Codger wrote:

I'll bet "Hayes" could could come up with a solution as they have with fasteners:


I know this is a funny but I've 'modified' many a bolt to make things work. When you've got a die that needs to go back in the press, you do what you have to do! Turning down the shank so you can get proper cutting clearance not that uncommon. Trimming the head because the die block has been sharpened to death and should have been replaced long ago.... 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 9:37am
We have a CASE 530 backhoe with a 159 gas.......... but i think the G188 was the diesel option.

Edited by steve(ill) - 01 Mar 2022 at 9:39am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 9:47am
Well then, a diesel engine that you want to try and patch up a rod bearing ?? That is a BAD idea. Deezel engines have twice the compression as any gas engine and have more pound to them when they fire. You've got a knock you say ??   Does the exhaust emit any white puffing smoke ??  A really bad (beyond fixing) rod bearing will lower the compression on ONE cylinder and can make it knock and partially miss-fire. The piston could also be hitting the cylinder head if bad enough. I saw a D-19 turbo-deezel that bad once and it only took a new crankshaft and connecting rod to fix it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 10:40am
I'm not trying to patch anything I'm looking at what options are available if possible depending on what it looks like when I take it apart. It's how I normally approach things that I don't know is to obtain some information first and this place is normally a great resource.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 12:47pm
Hunt, i think the moral to the story is that a knock , can be a rod bearing, can be a wrist pin, can be a cracked piston... or who knows... You really cant tell until you do a Complete inspection......... If you doing it in frame, and pulling the head and piston / rods out ... you can leave the crank in the tractor "until" you determine the extent of damage and if the crank journals are round or not..... at this point, you just dont know..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 12:56pm
Right, I've also heard it could be a injector not firing/ or properly and causing an off sound( this is my only old diesel so it could be something else also I guess being I'm not used to hearing what one sounds like...)
It does smoke white a bit but not terrible seing how it's a 1972 that probably at a minimum needs new piston rings/ sleeves if never been done!

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 01 Mar 2022 at 1:00pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 1:01pm
You haven't answered the question about the exhaust puffing any smoke, white or black. Your engine is not a direct injection engine. It is the old LaNova system like Buda and Oliver used. They do not "knock" from cylinder firing. They are smooooth. So, if you have a knock, I'd bet it was mechanical.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote orangereborn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Mar 2022 at 3:43pm
There was such a device/tool...Removed the starter and put an electric motor in it's place. Little hand held belt sander and follow the journal.  Generally they came right to your location and did the job...At the curb of your home...Where-ever there was electricity...Middle 1960's he got a little generator. I think it was a Honda...He did tractors/all types vehicles...And yes, some of them were orange...Some were a complete success and some maybe made it to the resale lot...But that's the way it was then...

In the mid 1960's I was on my way to Mason City IA to get a load of AC parts and whatever and was to tow a combine (72?)back to SE MN. Just at the MN/IA border the 1951 IHC truck started to knock.  I pulled into a little park on the north edge of Chester IA and dropped the oil pan and found a bad rod bearing...Walked into Chester and called the shop...(from the post office I think)...Decided that the engine shop would come out repair it.  Did not have to take it into town as he now had a generator...He came 70 miles did the grind, Right there in the park...I put it back together, and finished the trip...Worked Good...In the winter slow months I rebuilt the motor...I recall Lyle Joy the Allis "block man" was at the dealership at the time and stopped by as he was also heading to Mason City...I go thru there often and think of the event...Dale 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 4:59am
Wow, thanks for the story! Gives hope to enginuity😜
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Codger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 5:30am
Yup. One such apparatus was marketed by "Storm Engineering", (later Storm-Vulcan). I've not seen one in years but a guy with some time could make effective repairs to get a job done. Don't think I'd ever seen one used but have seen the kit and read the literature in the case briefly as was intrigued by the process.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 6:29pm
Ok sooooo, pulled drain plug today and green anti- freeze( probably about a quart) came out first then oil so I'm guessing I've got a blown head gasket to start with... Probably the cause of my white smoke. One positive about the short time I was able to spend after work before dark was one of my worries was breaking free my lug nuts on all 4 rims, which had me worried a bit since these tires look original and probably never been off but thankfully looks like some never seize was on threads! It will be a long process but it was at the right price and I'm not in any hurry to get projects done I have planned so I'll need some more time to explore and fix her up!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 6:36pm
No familiar with that little 4 banger, but all the larger Case engines were wet sleeves.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 7:32pm
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 7:36pm
Bingo!!   So proper diagnosis would be pull the oil pan and pressurize the cooling system and determine EXACTLY where the coolant is coming from.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Mar 2022 at 7:40pm
YEP... just like ALLIS... could be liner o-rings , could be freeze plug, could be gasket.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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