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desertjoe 
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 Topic: Power Steering no workeee,,,,,
Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 4:54pm |
Howdy to all,,, On my D14 Industrial, it has been trouble free on everything I asked it to do til recently. The only'ist trouble I've had was the the forward-reverse handle was not staying in position and Dr Allis was right on with this trouble shooting idea,,,,,!!!! Many Thanks,,,Dr. I been working on re-shingling my house after a mother of a BAD hail storm, so I took the backhoe off to allow the tractor to get in close quarters to lift the new shingles up on the roof and was working great when the dang Power Steering went all the way south!!!!!!!!! Ain't no way ole Joe is gonna carry them HEAVY bundles via the ladder!!!!!!! It takes me with BOTH hands to turn even a fraction and takes a long time to turn with 8-9 bundles of shingles n the loade
I checked the Power Steering level but it just needed bout 1/2 quart of fluid,,,,?
Does anyone know if there is a relief type apparattus on the pump that may be by-passing and causing pressure loss,???
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 5:50pm |
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Joe, i know less than nothing about this specific system,, but if it locked up all of a sudden i wonder about the pump drive.. Is it KEYED ? Splined shaft broke ? something like that.. I would loosen up the discharge line from the pump and see if it has pressure ?
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Joe(TX)
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 5:52pm |
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Check the fluid level.
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1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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desertjoe
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 6:17pm |
NO,,it did not lock up,,it is chain driven off the front of the engine. I had it running and removed the fill plug and you could see fluid circulating a little,,,is kinda why I think the pump is recirculating the fluid and not getting to the steering,,,,???
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Lars(wi)
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 7:24pm |
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Call a roofer.
Does the ps work when the bucket is empty?
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I tried to follow the science, but it was not there. I then followed the money, and that’s where I found the science.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 7:41pm |
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So it runs off the hydraulic system that runs the loader and hoe?
Does it have a hydraulic filter?
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 7:52pm |
i bet the hydraulic pump is shaft driven off the crank in front... the steering pump is off to the side like the generator, and it runs off a sprocket and chain instead of a belt ???
I would still look at discharge pressure from the pump... and then see if the steering motor has flow out of the discharge hose....... either no flow... or as you said, somehow it is bypassing...... or was the oil low and it got air in system..... power down on the bucket and lift the tires an inch and see if you can steer.. work it back and forth ??
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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MACK
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 8:38pm |
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Don't the power steering run off a pump on right side of motor with a reservoir in front support? MACK
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Leesok
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 8:44pm |
 MACK wrote:
Don't the power steering run off a pump on right side of motor with a reservoir in front support? MACK |
That’s the way the one I have is. Dipstick is on a plug in front of radiator.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 17 Feb 2022 at 8:49pm |
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i assumed he had an aftermarket unit that was chain driven... Maybe Joe is just looking at the Hyd pump system and not the "factory" steering pump ??
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 4:57am |
CHIT,,it finally dawned on me that I was FOC on relaying my info,,,,,,  OK, the power steering on the D14 has the pump bolted on the RIGHT side of engine. "IF" I remember correctly (I tore the engine down completely) when I rebuilt it,,,UMMmmm,,,,5-6 maybe 7 years ago,,?? And I believe the PS pump, Distributor and governor are all shaft driven from a gear off the camshaft or the crankshaft and splined. This Power Steering system is separate from the main hydraulic system. The pump for the backhoe and loader is a chain driven pump driven by the crankshaft at front of engine.
To Thad's question, I did install a filter on the return line from the backhoe to the main reservoir. So, the Power Steering system (Factory) does not have a filter.
While tractor is running, I can see some movement in it's reservoir at the fill plug,,,,,?? I can vaguely remember that there IS a "thingie" at the steering reservoir that takes pressurized oil from pump and turns the apparatus INSIDE the reservoir in either direction, maybe that is where the relief valve is located,,?? The reservoir is where the relief valve would likely be,,,right,,,??
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 5:03am |
Hey Mack,,,Thanks for the comment. Yes, that is the system that is on the D14. Do you know if the relief valve (Bypass) is at the reservoir,,,? I'm gonna use the loader to lift front end to see what power steering does then,,,,,It WILL turn if you keep tractor moving, but you got to use BOTH hands and work HARD,,,,
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 5:08am |
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Unless it is different than a normal D14, the power steering reservoir is the front support. There should be a vent/plug behind the grill, in front of the radiator. Oil should be about 1/2" over the gear when you look down in there. UTHF will work in it. Don't run it much until you find the problem as those PS pumps are very hard to find. If I remember right the relief valve is in the pump.
Edited by Jim.ME - 18 Feb 2022 at 5:17am
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Alvin M
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 5:13am |
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relief valve is in the pump as a cap on side
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 5:34am |
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Joe is it an industrial D14?
The one I bought has a completely different system than a farm tractor.
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 6:54am |
Thad, Did you by chance get an I40 or I400? Those had a different steering set up from the D14. The parts books for those and the I60 and I600 are at Minnpar's site.
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 7:44am |
Jim.ME wrote:
Thad,Did you by chance get an I40 or I400? Those had a different steering set up from the D14. The parts books for those and the I60 and I600 are at Minnpar's site.
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Yen mine is an I600. I just thought that since Joe’s has a loader and backhoe his would be industrial as well?
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Jim.ME
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:04am |
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Not necessarily
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:09am |
Jim.ME wrote:
Not necessarily |
Got ya and thank you for the link for mine. That will be a valuable site to visit.
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Fred in Pa
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 12:10pm |
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Any time a customer has a problem with steering I check oil level or oil supply to pump and then check pressure with a flow rator ,doing anything less is a waste of time in my opinion .
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He who dies with the most toys is,
nonetheless ,still dead.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 2:52pm |
Thad in AR. wrote:
Joe is it an industrial D14?
The one I bought has a completely different system than a farm tractor. |
Well, Thad,,that many years ago when I first started the rebuilding of the tractor I was told by several people here and other tractor forums that it was an industrial model because of #1 the Transmission oil cooler, #2 the Power Director being on Left side #3 No 3 point #4 No PTO and no provision for belt pulley. Also has the heavy duty radiator. I just been quoting what I was told,,,,,??  |
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 5:03pm |
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so where is the oil tank for the steering pump ? ......... the pump is driven off the distributor drive , you said ?
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desertjoe
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 8:27pm |
Hey Steve, the power steering reservoir is the big cast "front Support". If I remember correctly, the power steering pump and the distributor and the governor are all driven on a shaft that is itself driven by a gear off the camshaft,,,I believe that is correct,,,,but I could be wrong as it was a few years I been into it,,,, I'm gonna see where I can tee into the discharge line off the pump to put a pressure gauge there to see if pressure is fluctuating,,,,? Also look into the relief valve at pimp.
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 18 Feb 2022 at 9:09pm |
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when you said you looked into the tank and saw the oil moving, you were looking into the fill port behind the grill, in front of the radiator ?? ........ seems like 90% of the time someone complains about steering, it ends up being the oil level in the "hidden tank".
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Thad in AR.
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Posted: 20 Feb 2022 at 7:02pm |
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On mine the fill port behind the grill is plumbed over to the loader frame reservoir.
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desertjoe
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Posted: 21 Feb 2022 at 9:03pm |
Thad in AR. wrote:
On mine the fill port behind the grill is plumbed over to the loader frame reservoir. |
HMMMmm,??, Thad,,I'm havein a bit of trouble visualizing the oil fill being plumbing over to the loader frame reservoir. The I600 has a 160 engine which is same engine as my D15 Series II had and it also had the front quadrant which was used for the power steering Only,,??. The loader frame reservoir was used only for the hydraulics on tractor. Maybe the I600 was built to use the hydraulic oil from the frame reservoir,,,as well for the power Steering,,?? "IF" such is the case,,,maybe a tap into the line from the PS pump om mine FROM the front mounted hydraulic pump would improve my Power Steering,,,,,,?? Think I'll post this "wild hair azz Idea" by Dr Allis,,,,then run and hide,,,,, Chit,,the more I think bout this,,,the MORE I like it,,,, 
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desertjoe
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Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 5:55am |
Update,,,!! Well,,I'm now pretty sure the power steering on the D14 has a REAL issue,,,, I was moving the tractor around with no load on loader, to get a flat fixed and that SOB was taking BOTH hands to turn it as long as tractor was moving,,!! Could not turn wheel if it was setting still,,!! I KNow fluid level is good,,!! JEEEZE,,I hate thinkin bout having to remove that dang pump way down in there,,,, Anyone gots a magic wand,,,??
Edited by desertjoe - 22 Feb 2022 at 5:56am
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DrAllis
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Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 6:41am |
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Technically, you could disconnect the output/pressure line and dead-head a 2,000 psi gauge into it. Start the engine and at half throttle or more, it should make 15 to 1600 psi. If it does, I'd assume the pump is OK. If not, the pump has issues. Pump OK ?? A flow meter is best, but I think if this test passes, the pump must be good. Then, the steering control valve isn't sending pressurized oil to the hydraulic ram, or the ram itself (or the rack pin) is the problem. I've never had a D-14 shear off the rack pin, but when a D-17 does that, it will power steer to the right and not to the left.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 6:48am |
Is it better ? I waved my wand ,best that I could... have a crazy idea....from looking at the parts book pictures
if you raise the front axle up on stands, disconnect the hoses at the steering cylinder, you should be able to manually steer. from the book the cylinder has a rack that moves an 'idler' gear that then moves the 'regular' stuff. PS..you'll get some oil from the cylinder moving,so be prepared.. If it turns nice it's NOT mechanical, but 'power ' related...pump,hoses,valve, cylinder. If it's hard...gotta be mechanical..
hope this helps.. can post/send pix of the guts if need be.....
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desertjoe
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Posted: 22 Feb 2022 at 9:24am |
DrAllis wrote:
Technically, you could disconnect the output/pressure line and dead-head a 2,000 psi gauge into it. Start the engine and at half throttle or more, it should make 15 to 1600 psi. If it does, I'd assume the pump is OK. If not, the pump has issues. Pump OK ?? A flow meter is best, but I think if this test passes, the pump must be good. Then, the steering control valve isn't sending pressurized oil to the hydraulic ram, or the ram itself (or the rack pin) is the problem. I've never had a D-14 shear off the rack pin, but when a D-17 does that, it will power steer to the right and not to the left. |
Well Most Thank You's Dr Allis,,,I've got 3 contractors waiting on me and the D14 for just two more days lifting shingles up on the roof , so I'm gonna tell the dude that we HAVE to lift all the remaining shingles up TODAY,,so I can fix my tractor,,,,!! There are some tubing unions right where the lines turn into the steering control valve, so I can install a pressure gauge, which I happen to have in the range needed. Will do that this PM soon as we get the rest of them friggin shingles,,, This does it sporadically as it was operating in both directions just like new after I drove it after getting a flat fixed.
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