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Allis 301 |
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 8:27pm |
Is it possible to put the rear mounting plate from a Allis G262 onto a Allis 301 and the clutch/ driveline will lineup when motor is installed ?
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Any thing is possible with enough time and money. But no to your question. 262 plate don't have square groves for sealing around frank and cam, plus bolt holes are different.
Guess you want to put 301 in D19 or D17? Best would be to put 190 torque tube on D series or make adapter plate or redrill 301 plate to fit D series, then don't think 301 flywheel will fit into D series bell housing. MACK |
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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Does the flywheel from a 262 fit onto the 301 ? |
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Yes, but is only 10" clutch. MACK
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Sorry, D series is 11". MACK
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Larry W.
Silver Level Joined: 07 Nov 2010 Location: Luck, WI Points: 278 |
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Use the 301 backer plate and flywheel, it will bolt up to d19/d17 bellhousing. If using d17 gas, the input shaft is a different length then the diesel. The 301 flywheel and clutch will fit in as well, but will require some grinding in rear of bellhousing. if my memory is right you have to grind some in the starter pocket as well to clear nose of 301 starter.
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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I am told the 301 is 3 inch longer, is that a problem with the rad on a D19
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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Looking for some more options, the Buda engine became allis chalmers then white/allis and then agco, so would the allis 301 fit into some White tractor or possible cockshutt 40 or 50 ?
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19658 |
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The Buda engine company was bought by A-C in 1953. Buda engines were continued with some redesigning to suit the A-C product line. The "301" (2000 series) and "426" (3000 series) were true new A-C designs coming out of the old Buda (now A-C) engine factory( Harvey, Illinois) in the early to mid 1960's. There is zero-zipp-nadda connection between these engines and anything ever used in a White/Oliver/Cockshutt.
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CAL(KS)
Orange Level Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Location: Chapman, KS Points: 3747 |
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a 433 (200 cu) engine from an F2 or 6060? 6070/80 should bolt up just like the 301 without the length issues. same engine minus 2 cylinders
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15 |
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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Thanks guys for all the information,this gives me alot to think about and possible lots of work.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19658 |
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You haven't told us what you are trying to do. Makes it hard to give the best advice when we are in the dark as to what your goal actually is.
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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Thinking of installing a A-C 301 into a d-19 or maybe cockshutt 35 or 40.
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PeteMN
Bronze Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hutchinson, MN Points: 192 |
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Quite a few things are different on the two motors. The steering rod from a D19 won't clear the 301 motor. The radiator ports are in different locations. The throttle shaft is different. Things like the tach drive are on the other side of the motor which means that they spin the other way. You really need to park a 301 next to a 262 and start looking and measuring. It can be done, but its not one of those projects where you just unbolt this unit and bolt in the other unit. It takes quite a bit of modification so its just not practical. Anybody with the skill to do it is better off doing something else with their time.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19658 |
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BUT, if you are trying to make a puller out of it, you'd want the 6 banger not the 4 banger ……...
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Calvin Schmidt
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Ontario Can. Points: 4515 |
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It can be done. I've seen a 301 in a D17. A friend has a 301 in a WD-45 puller and his Dad just put a 301 in a D19.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19658 |
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I'd love to see pics of how they did the steering and does it have POWER steering on the D-17 and still look somewhat OEM. My project this Winter is going to be putting an F-2 four cyl turbo engine in a D-17 and the steering is my biggest problem. Would like to stay NF but may have to go WF with a steering ram on the tie rods like a late 170/175.
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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What would need to be done to a A-C D19/262 engine to get to 100+ hp ?
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200Tom1
Orange Level Joined: 03 Jun 2019 Location: Iowa Points: 1167 |
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Dads D19 dropped a sleeve many years ago. He took it to Reagan Imp in Hummeston Iowa to be repaired. When they got it back together and dynoed it, it was turning out 105 Hp. They turned the pump down to 75 Hp. Dad said "it sure doesn't pull the 5X16 snap coupler plow as well". What ever had been done to it was in the pump and he was using premium #2 diesel.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19658 |
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D-19 gasoline tractor when tested at Nebraska Test in April of 1962, the maximum PTO HP measured was 72.63 HP. There's really nothing you can do to change that. It was finely tuned as well as the Engineers could tune it. If you swapped out the factory carburetor for the one from an early model "F" Gleaner or late model "C-2", you would gain 10 HP. I imagine a carb from a 190XT gas might be a little bigger yet and I'm sure there are larger carbs than that. Other than raising compression, increasing bore and or stroke and changing camshafts, valve sizes, etc there isn't anything you can really do but install a larger carb and increase RPM's.
Edited by DrAllis - 15 Jun 2019 at 8:12pm |
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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What kind of bore and stroke would be needed to get to 100+ hp ?
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Stroke is almost out of the question with out a lot smaller rod. Cam is notched now for rods to clear.
Bore is almost impossible, because you get into head bolts. I bored a block out to a few thousands of head bolts. It held until pump belt rolled over. That is when it took the front of block out. MACK |
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19658 |
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I built a G-262 for a friend 30 yrs ago. We used D-262 pistons and shaved .200" off the tops to lower the compression a bit. We had the camshaft grind improved and started with a 190XT carb. Pretty sure we were at 100 HP @ 2500 RPM's and would run it 4,000 RPM if the rules allowed it.
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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Did that cause any head gasket problems or would a 1/2 in. stroker crank be more reliable to get the same hp ?
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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1/2 " stroke would make journals almost too small.
No head gasket problems, they was oringed. MACK |
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Fullpull
Bronze Level Access Joined: 02 Jun 2019 Location: Canada Points: 50 |
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What was the compression on that, was that with stock head ?
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MACK
Orange Level Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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No, it was aluminum head on alcohol 50 lbs boost 8-1 comp. To. MACK
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19658 |
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My cranking compression pressure was 300-320 psi if I remember right.....this was many years ago. Had to use 114 octane racing fuel. I used the thicker diesel head gasket to get the compression down to that figure with a stock gasoline cylinder head.
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SteveM C/IL
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8053 |
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Sounds like peeing in the wind to get "big" power and have it live. Probably be better off putting your efforts elsewhere.
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DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19658 |
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That engine I built ran us for 6 or 7 yrs and then we sold it to someone in Minnesota and as far as I know it is still running in a puller.
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