Allis 301
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=161558
Printed Date: 20 Apr 2024 at 11:33am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Allis 301
Posted By: Fullpull
Subject: Allis 301
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 8:27pm
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Is it possible to put the rear mounting plate from a Allis G262 onto a Allis 301 and the clutch/ driveline will lineup when motor is installed ?
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Replies:
Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 8:44pm
Any thing is possible with enough time and money. But no to your question. 262 plate don't have square groves for sealing around frank and cam, plus bolt holes are different.
Guess you want to put 301 in D19 or D17?
Best would be to put 190 torque tube on D series or make adapter plate or redrill 301 plate to fit D series, then don't think 301 flywheel will fit into D series bell housing. MACK
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:01pm
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Does the flywheel from a 262 fit onto the 301 ?
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:26pm
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Yes, but is only 10" clutch. MACK
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 02 Jun 2019 at 9:28pm
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Sorry, D series is 11". MACK
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Posted By: Larry W.
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 12:51pm
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Use the 301 backer plate and flywheel, it will bolt up to d19/d17 bellhousing. If using d17 gas, the input shaft is a different length then the diesel. The 301 flywheel and clutch will fit in as well, but will require some grinding in rear of bellhousing. if my memory is right you have to grind some in the starter pocket as well to clear nose of 301 starter.
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 03 Jun 2019 at 7:53pm
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I am told the 301 is 3 inch longer, is that a problem with the rad on a D19
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 05 Jun 2019 at 8:19pm
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Looking for some more options, the Buda engine became allis chalmers then white/allis and then agco, so would the allis 301 fit into some White tractor or possible cockshutt 40 or 50 ?
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 7:01am
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The Buda engine company was bought by A-C in 1953. Buda engines were continued with some redesigning to suit the A-C product line. The "301" (2000 series) and "426" (3000 series) were true new A-C designs coming out of the old Buda (now A-C) engine factory( Harvey, Illinois) in the early to mid 1960's. There is zero-zipp-nadda connection between these engines and anything ever used in a White/Oliver/Cockshutt.
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Posted By: CAL(KS)
Date Posted: 06 Jun 2019 at 7:53am
a 433 (200 cu) engine from an F2 or 6060? 6070/80 should bolt up just like the 301 without the length issues. same engine minus 2 cylinders
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Me -C,U,UC,WC,WD45,190XT,TL-12,145T,HD6G,HD16,HD20
Dad- WD, D17D, D19D, RT100A, 7020, 7080,7580, 2-8550's, 2-S77, HD15
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 11 Jun 2019 at 10:42pm
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Thanks guys for all the information,this gives me alot to think about and possible lots of work.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 12 Jun 2019 at 6:52am
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You haven't told us what you are trying to do. Makes it hard to give the best advice when we are in the dark as to what your goal actually is.
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 14 Jun 2019 at 11:55pm
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Thinking of installing a A-C 301 into a d-19 or maybe cockshutt 35 or 40.
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Posted By: PeteMN
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 12:22am
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Quite a few things are different on the two motors. The steering rod from a D19 won't clear the 301 motor. The radiator ports are in different locations. The throttle shaft is different. Things like the tach drive are on the other side of the motor which means that they spin the other way. You really need to park a 301 next to a 262 and start looking and measuring. It can be done, but its not one of those projects where you just unbolt this unit and bolt in the other unit. It takes quite a bit of modification so its just not practical. Anybody with the skill to do it is better off doing something else with their time.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 12:23am
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BUT, if you are trying to make a puller out of it, you'd want the 6 banger not the 4 banger ……...
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Posted By: Calvin Schmidt
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 5:34am
It can be done. I've seen a 301 in a D17. A friend has a 301 in a WD-45 puller and his Dad just put a 301 in a D19.
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Nothing is impossible if it is properly financed
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 6:11am
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I'd love to see pics of how they did the steering and does it have POWER steering on the D-17 and still look somewhat OEM. My project this Winter is going to be putting an F-2 four cyl turbo engine in a D-17 and the steering is my biggest problem. Would like to stay NF but may have to go WF with a steering ram on the tie rods like a late 170/175.
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 6:36pm
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What would need to be done to a A-C D19/262 engine to get to 100+ hp ?
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Posted By: 200Tom1
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 8:08pm
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Dads D19 dropped a sleeve many years ago. He took it to Reagan Imp in Hummeston Iowa to be repaired. When they got it back together and dynoed it, it was turning out 105 Hp. They turned the pump down to 75 Hp. Dad said "it sure doesn't pull the 5X16 snap coupler plow as well". What ever had been done to it was in the pump and he was using premium #2 diesel.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 8:12pm
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D-19 gasoline tractor when tested at Nebraska Test in April of 1962, the maximum PTO HP measured was 72.63 HP. There's really nothing you can do to change that. It was finely tuned as well as the Engineers could tune it. If you swapped out the factory carburetor for the one from an early model "F" Gleaner or late model "C-2", you would gain 10 HP. I imagine a carb from a 190XT gas might be a little bigger yet and I'm sure there are larger carbs than that. Other than raising compression, increasing bore and or stroke and changing camshafts, valve sizes, etc there isn't anything you can really do but install a larger carb and increase RPM's.
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 8:28pm
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What kind of bore and stroke would be needed to get to 100+ hp ?
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 15 Jun 2019 at 8:55pm
Stroke is almost out of the question with out a lot smaller rod. Cam is notched now for rods to clear.
Bore is almost impossible, because you get into head bolts. I bored a block out to a few thousands of head bolts. It held until pump belt rolled over. That is when it took the front of block out. MACK
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 7:04pm
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I built a G-262 for a friend 30 yrs ago. We used D-262 pistons and shaved .200" off the tops to lower the compression a bit. We had the camshaft grind improved and started with a 190XT carb. Pretty sure we were at 100 HP @ 2500 RPM's and would run it 4,000 RPM if the rules allowed it.
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 8:12pm
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Did that cause any head gasket problems or would a 1/2 in. stroker crank be more reliable to get the same hp ?
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 8:30pm
1/2 " stroke would make journals almost too small.
No head gasket problems, they was oringed. MACK
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 9:15pm
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What was the compression on that, was that with stock head ?
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 9:22pm
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No, it was aluminum head on alcohol 50 lbs boost 8-1 comp. To. MACK
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 10:08pm
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My cranking compression pressure was 300-320 psi if I remember right.....this was many years ago. Had to use 114 octane racing fuel. I used the thicker diesel head gasket to get the compression down to that figure with a stock gasoline cylinder head.
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Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 10:35pm
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Sounds like peeing in the wind to get "big" power and have it live. Probably be better off putting your efforts elsewhere.
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 16 Jun 2019 at 11:10pm
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That engine I built ran us for 6 or 7 yrs and then we sold it to someone in Minnesota and as far as I know it is still running in a puller.
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 17 Jun 2019 at 8:33pm
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Sounds like a nice project,guess I will have to see if I can find some parts. Thanks
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 7:26am
Hey Dr Allis, was that you I used to see pulling a gas D17 years ago in Mabel? Been 20-25 years since I've been there.
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Wink
I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 7:36am
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We went to an indoor event in SE Mn about that many years ago. We went 2 yrs in a row. One yr it was zero or below for temps...……….
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 8:06am
I think that's the year I went, just as an observer. Yes indoor and the ventilation was less than satisfactory. If I remember right your D17 did well. Probably have you pulling on VHS somewhere.
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Wink
I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 8:16am
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I remember doing well too. 1st or 2nd in each class I think. I also remember being protested for having a six cylinder engine. I removed the righthand hood and said to the Official that I only saw 4 spark plugs, how many did he see ???
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Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 9:20am
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There's something about an Allis doing good in a pull that ticks off the competition. I was accused of having my drawbar too high, my rpms too high, and even told that D17's were not allowed in the club because they were too new. I had to bring actual serial number and production dates from AGCO with a part number on the page to prove them wrong, including the rpm data which I was told that I was only allowed to run at 1650 rpm. It took time to get them to grasp the idea of high idle rpm. My question was why didn't they care what rpm anyone else was running? Luckily I worked at the dealership and had access to everything I needed. BTW, back then I was a meek and mild guy too so it wasn't like I bragged about my tractor or anything. I was just the wrong color among the sea of green and red. There were some good guys too even if they drove a green tractor.
Well I guess that I've taken this thread way off topic now!
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Wink
I am a Russian Bot
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Posted By: exSW
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 9:39am
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Nah,most pullers can't grasp anything outside the box. I showed up at a "stock" truck pull with a big block Dodge. Those 460 Ford guys about had a cow. Had all the manuals in the back seat to prove this that and the next thing were factory.
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 18 Jun 2019 at 5:50pm
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Dr Allis do you remember how much gap/space you had from top of cylinder to the head to get the compression you had with your G262 ?
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Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 7:24am
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Not exactly. I know I had to use a diesel head gasket (thicker) and we didn't use any new valves or seats, just reground the old to sink them into the head a little more. I do remember removing .200" off the top of the diesel pistons. It might have been .250" but I think it was .200" as I felt the piston tops were getting kind of thin (in the center) after removing material.
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 7:15pm
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OK,I was thinking of installing bigger valves and oringed copper head gasket. I guess I will have to do some precise measuring.
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Posted By: MACK
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 8:52pm
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Bigger valves will mean grinding radius in sleeves for valves to open. Then you will have shrouded valves that won't flow. MACK
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 19 Jun 2019 at 9:34pm
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Ok, I guess installing bigger valves is not going to work as I had planned.
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Posted By: 8070220
Date Posted: 20 Jun 2019 at 10:56pm
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We gotta d17 whit a 301 dsl in it and all we did was use 6080 side frame and use the 175 front end and a case belt drive pump look nice .now we got a d15 fornt on it and made the front pice but still look like a 17 dls if any one want to see pic I can email u some of it .
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2019 at 7:28am
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Dr Allis did you have to use a gear reduction starter with the compression ratio being fairly high,where would be a good place to get the right cam ?
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Posted By: Fullpull
Date Posted: 22 Jun 2019 at 10:25am
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New to the forum and I see this should be in a different topic,will switch to pulling forum. Sorry
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