This site is not affiliated with AGCO Inc., Duluth GA., Allis-Chalmers Co., Milwaukee, WI., or any surviving or related corporate entity. All trademarks remain the property of their respective owners. All information presented herein should be considered the result of an un-moderated public forum with no responsibility for its accuracy or usability assumed by the users and sponsors of this site or any corporate entity. | ||||||
The Forum | Parts and Services | Unofficial Allis Store | Tractor Shows | Serial Numbers | History |
Local Help! `47 WD |
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Author | |
bhaynes
Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Location: Chattanooga, TN Points: 105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Posted: 13 Jun 2019 at 7:49pm |
I am looking for anybody close to Chattanooga, TN with experience in the WD model? PLEASE message me!
I am restoring my Great Great Grandfathers WD. It has been fully restored, but I can't get it started for the life of me. It has spark. Gas. Gas too Carb.. It IS in timing. The mag spark cables are in proper order, etc... I have tried it with the kill switch on, off and the wire not even plugged up to the magneto. I am absolutely clueless at this point. It sure looks pretty but would LOVE to have it running again. Any help would be great! Obviously if somebody with knowledge living close, would be awesome to swing over one day and take a look! :)
|
|
Sponsored Links | |
Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8172 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Haynes!
I can almost feel your pain! Good luck and I hope a fellow Allis guy can help you trouble shoot the starting issues! Family tractors are the best! If I was close I would stop in even though I am not a mag guy! Regards, Chris
|
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Have you tried removing the hose to the air filter and giving it a shot of starting fluid? If the gas is old or if it's had gas with ethanol in it, your carburetor could be dirty and some of the narrow passages could be plugged.
|
|
bhaynes
Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Location: Chattanooga, TN Points: 105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The Carb. was completely redone during the restoration. I bought a complete Zenith repair kit and took the whole thing apart. Cleaned every last piece of surface on that thing and replaced most of the parts with new. It looks like a brand new carb.
HOWEVER - I do think that is the culprit maybe. I don't think gas is getting sucked into the manifold and into the block. I know for a fact gas is getting TO the carb. But when I took the spark plug out and did the `ole sniff test, I don't smell gas. Which I would think I should if gas is being sprayed in there right? I also squirted about a tablespoon of gas into the pistons to see if I could "kick start" the process, but nothing. |
|
Ranse
Orange Level Joined: 11 Mar 2016 Location: Tennessee Points: 773 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
I'm only 80 miles from Chattanooga and I wouldn't care to help you out, but I'm not your guy. Since all your components are new or repaired, I'd say it probably is in your timing. I've read several times on this forum how to time an engine. I have a vague understanding of it. I'd say until you actually time one and it runs you're going to remain uncertain. I know this don't help, but good luck with your WD.
|
|
bhaynes
Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Location: Chattanooga, TN Points: 105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks Ranse!
I am not sure if timing or the Carb. Something tells me the Carb isn't getting gas in it, but I know gas is flowing. (if that makes sense). For the timing, I know it is 1, 2, 4, 3. I hand cranked it until I saw Piston 1 at the top notch. Then made sure from there that the Mag. is hitting position 1 on the cap. Not sure if that is correct, but that is how I tried to time it correctly.
|
|
TimCNY
Orange Level Joined: 15 Apr 2014 Location: Upstate NY Points: 1551 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Timing would not be a factor in the fuel not being sucked into (not sprayed lol) the cylinder(s).
|
|
TimCNY
Orange Level Joined: 15 Apr 2014 Location: Upstate NY Points: 1551 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Ignition timing, that is.
|
|
jiminnd
Orange Level Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Rutland ND Points: 2210 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Did you have piston on top of compression stroke, maybe you are off one turn.
|
|
1945 C, 1949 WF and WD, 1981 185, 1982 8030, unknown D14(nonrunner)
|
|
nella(Pa)
Orange Level Access Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Allentown, Pa. Points: 3086 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The no. 1 piston must be on compression stroke when putting it on top dead center for timing the motor, put your thumb in the spark plug hole to feel for compression while cranking the motor.
|
|
cabinhollow
Orange Level Joined: 24 Mar 2018 Location: SEKY Points: 327 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'll go with ,timing is one stroke off.
Updraft carb and on the intake stroke, the intake valves are closed. |
|
bhaynes
Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Location: Chattanooga, TN Points: 105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thanks everybody! I will look at the timing again.
On the Carb issue though. Shouldn't I smell gas in the Carb?
|
|
Brian G. NY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
From the Manual: |
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It's very easy to remove the air cleaner hose and spray some starting fluid in. If it starts and quits, you will know it's not on the ignition side.
If it doesn't start, you will know it's on the ignition side.
|
|
bhaynes
Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Location: Chattanooga, TN Points: 105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If it starts and stops - then NOT timing basically?
If it doesn't start - then timing? ?? :)
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4443 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
The surfaces aren't the problem. The problem is when one of the very narrow passages is plugged up. A teaspoon of gas probably isn't enough to get it to start. I would start with a teaspoon down each spark plug, if you don't want to use starting fluid.
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Fully restored? Is the cam timed with the crankshaft properly? You can have fuel to the carb, spark at the plugs and it won't run if the valves are opening at the wrong time. You also most likely won't have any gas being sucked into the cylinders. You could also have spark on the exhaust stoke, if you didn't have it on TDC of THE COMPRESSION stroke when you "timed" it. |
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Correct. If it's 180 degrees off, it might backfire, but it won't start. If it starts and runs anywhere near normally, the timing is right (or slightly off), but it isn't getting gas. |
|
DrAllis
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 19698 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
No such thing as a 1947 WD.
|
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Fully restored? Is the cam timed with the crankshaft properly? You can have fuel to the carb, spark at the plugs and it won't run if the valves are opening at the wrong time. You also most likely won't have any gas being sucked into the cylinders. You could also have spark on the exhaust stoke, if you didn't have it on TDC of THE COMPRESSION stroke when you "timed" it. |
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4443 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Has it ever run since you have had it? What has changed since the last time it ran? Did you do anything that would change the timing? Are the gears in the magneto aligned correctly?
|
|
DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5651 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The very first thing I'd do... is open up the carb drain and let it run for about a minute, then close it, then close off the fuel tank petcock and dump and replace the sediment bowl, then open the petcock again, then open the carb drain for 15 seconds, then close, and tap on the carb bowl. (*flushing it clear of any water, and proving fuel flow, making sure carb float isn't stuck).
Next, pull all four spark plugs, clean each one, connect plug wire, turn the engine over by hand and observe spark at each plug... make sure that it matches with air pressure rise in cylinder (place a finger over the plug hole while turning crank). When turned slowly, the magneto impulser should emit a loud "CLACK!" when crossing TDC. The spark should be an angry, nasty white SNAP... Anything less means magneto needs a little TLC... at minimum, clean and set points... or at most, a complete rebuild with proven condenser and points, on a proper magneto test machine. You should have ample compression resistance on every cylinder when turning hand crank. If it hasn't run in a while, the valves may be lazy and not sealing well, which would inhibit proper ignition. Make certain that there's no mouse nests in the intake or exhaust... dump the oil from the oil-bath air cleaner, disconnect the air cleaner, and clean it out thoroughly. Pull off the muffler, put a vacuum cleaner on it, and the exhaust manifold, or if it's got a wasp nest in it, remove the manifold and clean all the mud out by hand. (BTDT...) |
|
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
|
|
DaveKamp
Orange Level Access Joined: 12 Apr 2010 Location: LeClaire, Ia Points: 5651 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hee hee... if it was his great-great grandfathers, it's probably a '37 unstyled... |
|
Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
|
|
Brian G. NY
Orange Level Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: 12194 Points: 2203 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yeah, I think most of us let that "slide"......WC or WD...makes little difference when diagnosing his problem. I posted the Magneto timing procedure because I don't think, from his description of how he "timed" it, he has a full comprehension of the difference between a magneto and distributor.
|
|
bhaynes
Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Location: Chattanooga, TN Points: 105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Apologies. Fat fingered it. It is 1948. :)
|
|
bhaynes
Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Location: Chattanooga, TN Points: 105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It was a rust bucket and leaking out of every nook and crack when I got it from my grandfather. It was running about 2 years ago (maybe a little less) and then turned off and hasn't been fired up since. I took it and completely redid everything. New seals everywhere. Everything back the way it was. New Manifold, newly rebuilt carburetor, new headlights, new steering wheel, sand blasted down to the cast iron, then new primer and AC orange all the way around. The Magneto wasn't generating spark and Steve in NJ (here on the Forum) rebuilt it for me and sent it back. The generator has been cleaned, repainted and tested. New battery and new wiring harness. Also new spark plugs, gas lines, oil lines, hydraulic hoses, new hoses everywhere else. New Radiator and bolts everywhere. Oh, new Oil Bath Air Cleaner (refurbished, cleaned and painted) :) The `48 WD looks like it could be show room ready! |
|
bhaynes
Silver Level Joined: 23 Feb 2019 Location: Chattanooga, TN Points: 105 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This is the tractor before the final finish. (Looks pretty with the orange UT flag!) hehe
|
|
WF owner
Orange Level Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4443 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
It would be much better if it was an orange SYRACUSE flag....
But it does look very nice!!! Edited by WF owner - 14 Jun 2019 at 2:17pm |
|
CTuckerNWIL
Orange Level Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: NW Illinois Points: 22816 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
"The mag spark cables are in proper order, etc.."
Proper order is determined by where the mag was in its cycle when it was mounted on the tractor. You have to determine when it is going to spark on one wire, and put the mag on with the engine at TDC of the compression stroke to know which wire goes where. |
|
http://www.ae-ta.com
Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
|
Sugarmaker
Orange Level Joined: 12 Jul 2013 Location: Albion PA Points: 8172 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hanyes,
The family WD looks real good and is just waiting for you to get it started! You have done a lot of work on it! On the carb issue you need to open the bottom drain on the carb and allow gas to flow. (try not to hurt that new paint) Another option is to use a spray bottle with gas and spray it into the carb with the air cleaner hose off. If it trys to start and guits then fuel system is the problem. I cant help you on the mag timing. Sorry I have changed all mine to distributors. They are easier for me to trouble shoot. If I were you I would try to call Don(MO) for mag timing instructions. Regards, Chris
Edited by Sugarmaker - 14 Jun 2019 at 9:12pm |
|
D17 1958 (NFE), WD45 1954 (NFE), WD 1952 (NFE), WD 1950 (WFE), Allis F-40 forklift, Allis CA, Allis D14, Ford Jubilee, Many IH Cub Cadets, 32 Ford Dump, 65 Comet.
|
|
Post Reply | Page 12> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |