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Non-detergent engine oil |
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Slowmotion ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 2019 Location: SW MO Points: 48 |
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I know the pros and cons of detergent vs non-detergent motor oil have been discussed, but I think I'll go with non-detergent in the WD I recently bought, and I'm wondering what's available. All I've found, with one exception which is very expensive, is not for automotive type engines.
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Gary Burnett ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Virginia Points: 3008 |
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What could possibly be the advantage of using non detergent oil? Every motor I have seen pulled down that used non detergent oil had crud built up in it,usually packed tight under the valve cover.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85481 |
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I would start using the detergent oil like every other motor in the world does today. Monitor the oil and see if crud starts to break off and dirty the oil... If the motor is that dirty / sludge inside.... you have problems anyway .......... might as well get it cleaning out..... your motor will thank you 2 years from now.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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steve(ill) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: illinois Points: 85481 |
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Maybe pull the valve cover and LOOK ?
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Dmpaul89 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 06 Mar 2013 Location: Edwardsville,IL Points: 1689 |
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any farm and home type store like rural king will have it. if thats what you want. Last time I looked rural king oil was under $10 a gallon for sae 30. the autoparts stores like autozone, oriely, etc will be double the cost.
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DougS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Location: Iowa Points: 2490 |
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I can see the "what's the best non-detergent motor oil available" question coming next.
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DiyDave ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Gambrills, MD Points: 53254 |
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I'll throw in to roil the waters, Royal purple oil! No wait, Amsoil!
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savedallis1953 ![]() Bronze Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Jan 2018 Location: Florida Points: 136 |
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Go with single viscosity detergent.
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1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft.
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DougS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Location: Iowa Points: 2490 |
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Motor oil with zinc additives. Off the top of my head I can't think of a non-detergent oil with zinc.
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Dave H ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Central IL Points: 3559 |
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Sp how come you wanta do something like that to the ole girl?
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Phil48ACWC ![]() Silver Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Jan 2013 Location: Vermont Points: 296 |
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Non Detergent engine oil died long before Elvis for real good reason. DON'T USE IT!!!!!!!!!!
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DonBC ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Courtenay, BC, Points: 930 |
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The main purpose now for having non detergent oil is to lubricate anything that is exposed to moisture such as water pump bearings and seals, electric motor bearings, pressure washer pump oil, etc. Detergent oil and moisture will form a sludge that takes out seals and bearings.
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Jack of all trades, master of none
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BEK ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 05 Nov 2017 Location: Wilmington, NC Points: 216 |
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Tractor Supply Co. has Travelers Non-Detergent 30wt in five quart jugs. It was on sale for $9.99.
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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Ok, I will be the dissenter here.
I have a WD45 that I inherited from my Dad. As far as I know, it has never been overhauled. Since I only run it in warm weather, I use 30W non-detergent oil. It's what Dad always used; 10W in the winter and 30W in the summer. It has run well for many years. I see no reason to switch. |
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CrestonM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8447 |
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I'm a black sheep here too, as I use non-detergent oil in my tractors. I've bought it lately from Tractor Supply in the 5 qt jugs like BEK said for $9.99, but I have historically used NAPA brand non-detergent at $1.99/qt.
When I overhauled the engine in my B, it was very clean inside, and all I'd ever used was non-detergent, and that's all the PO used. I have reason to believe it was never overhauled before, as the crank/rod bearings all had AC part numbers, and it had the original kerosene pistons still in it.
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Gerald J. ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |
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Back when car engines changed from non-detergent to detergent oil, engine life increased a great deal. Besides the detergent to keep the oil from solidifying there is another additive that prevents water in a bearing between the copper or silver lining and the steel crankshaft from making a battery that is ordinarily shorted and so eats the bearing lining. I have read many articles long ago about the effects of detergent oil, in Lubrication Magazine probably about 1950.
In my opinion running any engine on non detergent oil is abusing the engine. Gerald J. |
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Stan R ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 03 Dec 2009 Location: MA Points: 969 |
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Converted our tractors decades ago to detergent oil. After the conversion, we ran it for maybe 10 to 20 hours and dumped the oil and filter and then just stayed with the 100 hr filter/ oil change. Never had any issues with it.
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Slowmotion ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 2019 Location: SW MO Points: 48 |
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I've read many times in many places that changing to detergent oil in an engine that has been run for many years on non-detergent oil can dislodge enough of the accumulated gunk to clog things up and do serious damage. I've also read of people who have made the switch with no problems whatsoever. Since I don't know the history of the tractor and don't want to pull any more apart now than I have to, I think the prudent thing to do is to run it on non-detergent for the time being. If I were to overhaul an engine, I would definitely start out with detergent and keep it that way.
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DrAllis ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Points: 21360 |
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But, there may be something to be said for the old "bypass" filtering system on a WD and using non-detergent oil in an old engine. Detergent oils carry the dirt to the full flow filter which traps the dirt and lets the oil move on to lubricating things. The bypass system only filters a small percentage of the oil per minute instead of 100% per minute like full-flow systems do. So, do you want to pump dirty oil every minute to engine parts with detergent oil?? or let some of the dirt settle and separate from the oil ?? I would only use good detergent oil if I knew the engine was clean inside.
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DanD ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: WI Points: 856 |
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I have never seen an engine manufacturer recommend non detergent oil for an engine ( at least since the introduction of detergent oil). I have this argument all the time on small engine pages. People say to use non detergent when there is no oil filter etc. But no one ever has any supporting documentation. Read owners and shop manuals for all small engines from all manufacturers and they all say to use detergent oil. The big engines are the same.
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DougS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Location: Iowa Points: 2490 |
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Most compressor manufacturers now specify HD synthetic oil.
If the engine is filthy there might be some dirt around the seals which may prevent some oil from leaking past the seals. Detergent oils may clean that dirt away, possibly causing more seal leakage. I would consider using non-detergent oil as a crutch in this case, not a permanent solution. The fix is to replace the seals if they leak after switching to detergent oil. If you bought a used tractor from someone, the odds are he was already using detergent oil. If the seal are leaking now, switching to non-detergent will not fix that problem. Why switch back now? |
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Slowmotion ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 2019 Location: SW MO Points: 48 |
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On the side of switching to detergent oil, at the time detergent oil became available millions of motorists switched, and I don't recall hearing any horror stories about engines failing, and I don't recall reading about or hearing of any warnings about what the switch could do to your engine. But maybe I just don't remember.
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DMiller ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 14 Sep 2009 Location: Hermann, Mo Points: 33121 |
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Only purpose for non Detergent these days is gear box oils, no need of the detergent value but will not hurt.
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WF owner ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 May 2013 Location: Bombay NY Points: 4889 |
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Oils are like women; 10 different guys will like 10 different ones and they will all have their own reasons.
Some guys think they need to use full synthetic only. They feel like the best oil is the only option. Other guys will use the cheapest things they can get their hands on and have decent luck with it. As I have posted before, I retired from NYSDOT after 31+ years. I never saw an engine failure in any engine that was attributed to engine oil and they use recycled oil. I do what I think is right and I can give you reasons. Someone else might do exactly the opposite and they can give you reasons. Make your own choices and live with the consequences.
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DougS ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 03 Nov 2011 Location: Iowa Points: 2490 |
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If you're going to change the oil every 100 hours, per the original schedule, you don't need an expensive oil. Much less a synthetic oil. In any case, I'd still use a detergent oil. As for recycled oil, if I used that in either of my cars and they found out, it would void the warranty. Both manufacturers specify synthetic only. Mineral oil is acceptable if it's an "emergency," but they state to drain and refill with synthetic as soon as possible.
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CrestonM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8447 |
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This was the main reason I stick with non-detergent in my old bypass oil filter engines. Plus, my 1951 Chevy with NO oil filtration system...
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SteveM C/IL ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Shelbyville IL Points: 8471 |
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Creston,back then they sold add on bypass filters for the old stovebolts.
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CrestonM ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Sep 2014 Location: Oklahoma Points: 8447 |
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I know, I just don’t have one. If I could find one I might consider it, but it’s gone 68 years and has very little crank wear.
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garden_guy ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Location: Illinois Points: 1146 |
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The only place I use non-detergent oil these days is in my WD's hydraulics. I've got some cheapo 20 weight non-detergent stuff that works great for plowing and remote cylinder use.
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Slowmotion ![]() Bronze Level ![]() Joined: 24 Mar 2019 Location: SW MO Points: 48 |
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How much oil does the WD take when the oil and filter are changed?
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