Non-detergent engine oil
Printed From: Unofficial Allis
Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=159697
Printed Date: 25 Jul 2025 at 8:23pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Non-detergent engine oil
Posted By: Slowmotion
Subject: Non-detergent engine oil
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 8:32pm
| I know the pros and cons of detergent vs non-detergent motor oil have been discussed, but I think I'll go with non-detergent in the WD I recently bought, and I'm wondering what's available. All I've found, with one exception which is very expensive, is not for automotive type engines. |
Replies:
Posted By: Gary Burnett
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 9:15pm
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What could possibly be the advantage of using non detergent oil? Every motor I have seen pulled down that used non detergent oil had crud built up in it,usually packed tight under the valve cover. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 9:26pm
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I would start using the detergent oil like every other motor in the world does today. Monitor the oil and see if crud starts to break off and dirty the oil... If the motor is that dirty / sludge inside.... you have problems anyway .......... might as well get it cleaning out..... your motor will thank you 2 years from now. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 9:26pm
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Maybe pull the valve cover and LOOK ? ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |
Posted By: Dmpaul89
Date Posted: 05 Apr 2019 at 9:34pm
| any farm and home type store like rural king will have it. if thats what you want. Last time I looked rural king oil was under $10 a gallon for sae 30. the autoparts stores like autozone, oriely, etc will be double the cost. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 4:15am
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I can see the "what's the best non-detergent motor oil available" question coming next. |
Posted By: DiyDave
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 4:35am
I'll throw in to roil the waters, Royal purple oil! No wait, Amsoil!
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Posted By: savedallis1953
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 5:33am
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Go with single viscosity detergent. ------------- 1953 WD, 1953 WD, WD engine with WD-45 crankshaft. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 6:04am
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Motor oil with zinc additives. Off the top of my head I can't think of a non-detergent oil with zinc. |
Posted By: Dave H
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 7:59am
Sp how come you wanta do something like that to the ole girl?  |
Posted By: Phil48ACWC
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 11:21am
| Non Detergent engine oil died long before Elvis for real good reason. DON'T USE IT!!!!!!!!!! |
Posted By: DonBC
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 12:29pm
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The main purpose now for having non detergent oil is to lubricate anything that is exposed to moisture such as water pump bearings and seals, electric motor bearings, pressure washer pump oil, etc. Detergent oil and moisture will form a sludge that takes out seals and bearings. ------------- Jack of all trades, master of none |
Posted By: BEK
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 1:09pm
| Tractor Supply Co. has Travelers Non-Detergent 30wt in five quart jugs. It was on sale for $9.99. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 1:27pm
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Ok, I will be the dissenter here. I have a WD45 that I inherited from my Dad. As far as I know, it has never been overhauled. Since I only run it in warm weather, I use 30W non-detergent oil. It's what Dad always used; 10W in the winter and 30W in the summer. It has run well for many years. I see no reason to switch. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 1:38pm
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I'm a black sheep here too, as I use non-detergent oil in my tractors. I've bought it lately from Tractor Supply in the 5 qt jugs like BEK said for $9.99, but I have historically used NAPA brand non-detergent at $1.99/qt. When I overhauled the engine in my B, it was very clean inside, and all I'd ever used was non-detergent, and that's all the PO used. I have reason to believe it was never overhauled before, as the crank/rod bearings all had AC part numbers, and it had the original kerosene pistons still in it.
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Posted By: Gerald J.
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 5:32pm
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Back when car engines changed from non-detergent to detergent oil, engine life increased a great deal. Besides the detergent to keep the oil from solidifying there is another additive that prevents water in a bearing between the copper or silver lining and the steel crankshaft from making a battery that is ordinarily shorted and so eats the bearing lining. I have read many articles long ago about the effects of detergent oil, in Lubrication Magazine probably about 1950. In my opinion running any engine on non detergent oil is abusing the engine. Gerald J. |
Posted By: Stan R
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 6:06pm
| Converted our tractors decades ago to detergent oil. After the conversion, we ran it for maybe 10 to 20 hours and dumped the oil and filter and then just stayed with the 100 hr filter/ oil change. Never had any issues with it. |
Posted By: Slowmotion
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 8:59pm
| I've read many times in many places that changing to detergent oil in an engine that has been run for many years on non-detergent oil can dislodge enough of the accumulated gunk to clog things up and do serious damage. I've also read of people who have made the switch with no problems whatsoever. Since I don't know the history of the tractor and don't want to pull any more apart now than I have to, I think the prudent thing to do is to run it on non-detergent for the time being. If I were to overhaul an engine, I would definitely start out with detergent and keep it that way. |
Posted By: DrAllis
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 9:00pm
| But, there may be something to be said for the old "bypass" filtering system on a WD and using non-detergent oil in an old engine. Detergent oils carry the dirt to the full flow filter which traps the dirt and lets the oil move on to lubricating things. The bypass system only filters a small percentage of the oil per minute instead of 100% per minute like full-flow systems do. So, do you want to pump dirty oil every minute to engine parts with detergent oil?? or let some of the dirt settle and separate from the oil ?? I would only use good detergent oil if I knew the engine was clean inside. |
Posted By: DanD
Date Posted: 06 Apr 2019 at 11:17pm
| I have never seen an engine manufacturer recommend non detergent oil for an engine ( at least since the introduction of detergent oil). I have this argument all the time on small engine pages. People say to use non detergent when there is no oil filter etc. But no one ever has any supporting documentation. Read owners and shop manuals for all small engines from all manufacturers and they all say to use detergent oil. The big engines are the same. |
Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 6:50am
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Most compressor manufacturers now specify HD synthetic oil. If the engine is filthy there might be some dirt around the seals which may prevent some oil from leaking past the seals. Detergent oils may clean that dirt away, possibly causing more seal leakage. I would consider using non-detergent oil as a crutch in this case, not a permanent solution. The fix is to replace the seals if they leak after switching to detergent oil. If you bought a used tractor from someone, the odds are he was already using detergent oil. If the seal are leaking now, switching to non-detergent will not fix that problem. Why switch back now? |
Posted By: Slowmotion
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 12:00pm
| On the side of switching to detergent oil, at the time detergent oil became available millions of motorists switched, and I don't recall hearing any horror stories about engines failing, and I don't recall reading about or hearing of any warnings about what the switch could do to your engine. But maybe I just don't remember. |
Posted By: DMiller
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 12:05pm
| Only purpose for non Detergent these days is gear box oils, no need of the detergent value but will not hurt. |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 4:14pm
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Oils are like women; 10 different guys will like 10 different ones and they will all have their own reasons. Some guys think they need to use full synthetic only. They feel like the best oil is the only option. Other guys will use the cheapest things they can get their hands on and have decent luck with it. As I have posted before, I retired from NYSDOT after 31+ years. I never saw an engine failure in any engine that was attributed to engine oil and they use recycled oil. I do what I think is right and I can give you reasons. Someone else might do exactly the opposite and they can give you reasons. Make your own choices and live with the consequences.
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Posted By: DougS
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 4:41pm
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If you're going to change the oil every 100 hours, per the original schedule, you don't need an expensive oil. Much less a synthetic oil. In any case, I'd still use a detergent oil. As for recycled oil, if I used that in either of my cars and they found out, it would void the warranty. Both manufacturers specify synthetic only. Mineral oil is acceptable if it's an "emergency," but they state to drain and refill with synthetic as soon as possible. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 7:47pm
This was the main reason I stick with non-detergent in my old bypass oil filter engines. Plus, my 1951 Chevy with NO oil filtration system...
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DrAllis wrote:Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 8:52pm
| Creston,back then they sold add on bypass filters for the old stovebolts. |
Posted By: CrestonM
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 9:10pm
| I know, I just don’t have one. If I could find one I might consider it, but it’s gone 68 years and has very little crank wear. |
Posted By: garden_guy
Date Posted: 07 Apr 2019 at 10:01pm
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The only place I use non-detergent oil these days is in my WD's hydraulics. I've got some cheapo 20 weight non-detergent stuff that works great for plowing and remote cylinder use. |
Posted By: Slowmotion
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 9:04pm
| How much oil does the WD take when the oil and filter are changed? |
Posted By: HudCo
Date Posted: 08 Apr 2019 at 11:51pm
| non detergant oil would be sending it to a certain death maybe its allready to late but i think i would use a high detrugant oil like 15w 40 and change it often may be the sludge will start to clean out . modern oils dont make sludge in engines like they did in the seventys and back |
Posted By: WF owner
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 5:15am
If that is so, how do you explain engines like my WD45 that have thousands of hours on them without being overhauled? It still runs great, has good compression and uses very little oil. It was my Dad's tractor and has never had anything but straight weight non-detergent oil since I can remember (since the 1960's). This tractor did all the heaviest work; chopping corn, plowing, all the baling, etc. The oil and filter was changed every spring to 30W for the summer and every fall to 10W for the winter months. In my opinion, sludge was caused more by extended oil change intervals than any other cause.
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Posted By: steve(ill)
Date Posted: 09 Apr 2019 at 9:18pm
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You are on the right track WF ....... detergent oil keeps the CRUD in suspension and it gets trapped in the filter ( or stays suspended) and is then drained out at change.... Non detergents just let the crud settle out through out the motor... so if you have GOOD REGULAR oil changes, the crud should be minimal over many years... You can also look at the applications and history... Many "farm" tractors were used in VERY DIRTY, DUSTY conditions with minimal filter on the air and oil... Oil was added from a dirty open can and wiped off with a dirty rag.... and change intervals were minimal... sometimes just ADD AS NEEDED....many sat outside and collected some rain water in the oil.... that is what has caused most of them to SLUDGE UP.
Detergent oils help take care of poor maintenance practices. ------------- Like them all, but love the "B"s. |