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190xt Injector Leak

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calico190xt68 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 10:48am
I completely cleaned up the engine and got all the gunk removed.  After doing this and running the engine for about 30 minutes at various rpms, I noticed that my first and sixth fuel injector have a leak, and the other four do not.  I think it is fuel and not oil.  I also noticed that the rubber piece surrounding the first and sixth cylinder looks little more aged than the others.  The tractor starts and runs good, so not real excited about tearing into it, but I thought I would gather comments on how to best stop these two leaks.  I have never installed or de-installed a fuel injector on any motor, so details would be appreciated.  See pic below.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dan (SE MI) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 11:01am
That rubber piece is just a seal to keep debris out of the injector bore.  The combustion is sealed by a copper washer at the injector tip on a 190XT.  You might want to start by checking the torque on the 2 mounting bolts.  Are you sure it's fuel?  If you pressure washed the area, you may have forced some fluid past the seal and it is now being pushed out by thermal expansion.  Probably unlikely, but I have seen stranger things.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 11:10am
Thanks.  I did pressure wash it.  Although, I am pretty sure it was leaking before I did the cleanup, but I couldn't tell which cylinders.  I will check the torque.  That makes sense that the rubber didn't actually seal anything too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 12:04pm
You won't believe it, but it is almost 99% sure it is a valve cover leaking oil. Injectors hardly ever leak down in the bore on that age tractor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 12:20pm
like Doc says,almost always the cover gasket tricking you.Cheap and easy first try.Could probably stand one anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 3:09pm
I will see if I can confirm that it is the valve cover tonight, but it would be easy to try that fix with a new valve cover gasket. It probably does need a new gasket on valve cover anyway. So, no need to mess with the fuel injectors just yet.

It seemed odd that it only leaks on the injector side of the motor and only directly above the first and 6th injectors. I see no other oil/fuel leaks at the top of the motor. You would think the gasket leaking would be elsewhere on the motor.

If you look at the picture and the studs used to torque the injector you will see a leak spilling out across the right hand stud. Maybe the valve cover wasn't torqued tightly in those two spots because the return injector lines were in the way?

I will report back what I find. Thanks for the suggestions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darrel in ND Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 3:49pm
Trust the Dr on this one. It worked for me. Darrel
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote allisorange Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12 Mar 2018 at 9:27pm
Listen to the Doc. Check that first.

  John Carlson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 8:07am
It appears that it is the valve cover leaking.  I couldn't see very well behind the first injector but the 6th one had oil around edge of the cover.   So, I am going to pursue replacement of valve cover gasket.    I looked at the manual and found the torque specs, but I didn't see a pattern specified so I will just go side to side.

Thanks for all who chimed in and thanks for heading me in the right direction Dr Allis!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DougG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 5:44pm
I start from the middle and work your way back and forth , tighten half way the first time then go back and repeat a final time , I always used HITACK sealant too, ususally works great
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MACK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Mar 2018 at 10:19pm
This the Philips head bolts away and use hex head bolts. Will have to retorque several times.
Use a good 3M glue on valve cover, put gasket on valve cover, put valve cover on flat Surface with some weight to hold gasket in place. Next morning put valve cover on.       MACK
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 7:04am
I do what Mack says and also before installing I spray high tack on the gasket in two coats letting it dry to a tackiness for each coat. That is how we did it at the Allis dealer I used to work at.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Mar 2018 at 7:32am
Again thanks for all the input on how best to replace the valve cover gasket.  I ordered the gasket yesterday so won't get to it for a few weeks, but I will report back.  Interestingly enough, it appears that I currently have the hex head bolts, so if the phillips heads were original, then someone has done this before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 1:59pm
I got the valve cover loose but it appears that I can't get it out without removing the hood? Would there be a trick that I don't know about? I also discovered that a couple of bolts were barely finger tight so surprised it wasn't leaking worse.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Joe(TX) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 5:16pm
You don't have to remove the hood, but you will have to remove the pipe to the turbo. The valve cover gasket can be difficult. I cut the heads of some 1/4 screws to align the gasket before replacing the cover.
1970 190XT, 1973 200, 1962 D-19 Diesel, 1979 7010, 1957 WD45, 1950 WD, 1961 D17, Speed Patrol, D14, All crop 66 big bin, 180 diesel, 1970 170 diesel, FP80 forklift. Gleaner A
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Mar 2018 at 10:31pm
Older sheet metal One-Nineties had taller one-piece side panels that could be removed to aid in some engine work. Newer (19001 and up) didn't have these, so raising of the hood at the front with a wood prop might be as good as hood removal (remove all hood bolts first). Air pipe over the top of valve cover and exhaust stack usually have to be removed to lift the hood at the front allowing it to rest at the dashboard.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lynn Marshall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 8:56am
I would seriously consider the Agco bolt kit for that application. It's a set of shoulder bolts with spring washers that keeps constant pressure on the gasket.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Orange Blood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 3:41pm
Originally posted by Lynn Marshall Lynn Marshall wrote:

I would seriously consider the Agco bolt kit for that application. It's a set of shoulder bolts with spring washers that keeps constant pressure on the gasket.

Times ten on what he said!!  Thumbs Up

You won't find in in the agco parts book looking specifically at the 190, but the kit is the same essentially for any of the 426, 301 engines, so look up say a 7020, or 7045 for example.


Edited by Orange Blood - 18 Mar 2018 at 3:42pm
Still in use:
HD7 WC C CA WD 2-WD45 WD45LP WD45D D14 3-D17 D17LP 2-D19D D19LP 190XTD 190XTLP 720 D21 220 7020 7030 7040 7045 3-7060
Projects: 3-U UC 2-G 2-B 2-C CA 7-WC RC WDLP WF D14 D21 210 7045 N7
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lonn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Mar 2018 at 10:46pm
When removing the hood bolts you will find there are several hard to find bolts and I usually find someone else got a little lazy and didn't replace all the bolts. Don't forget the two bolts under the instrument cowl. I believe they are 3/8 bolts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FREEDGUY Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 6:59pm
Would someone be willing to look-up and post the torque specs for the valve cover? We have to do the exact same procedure. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis Magoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20 Mar 2018 at 9:15pm
Good suggestion above...one thing I noticed with my new gasket is if you over torque the cork gasket it roll and will leak. So you want it real tight but not really really right. Not scientific but it made a big differencw one mine
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 8:56am
I want to document with pictures what I did on this.  As predicted by DrAllis, my older XT has the higher side panels which means you don't have to jack the hood up as much.  That was good news for me because I have a cab that limited how high I could go.

Here is my starting picture.  Notice that the hood bracket is definitely in the way so I loosed it and pushed upwards.  I disconnected the blowby tube, but didn't remove it.  I also did not want to disconnect the turbo line if at all possible.  So, I thought I had room to pull it towards the front.



I disconnected and removed side panels to get working room.  I disconnected all hood bolts although many were missing.  You can see I put about 2 inches of wood spacers to get the room.



And I pushed up on valve cover and twisted it sideways, pulled it towards the front and out it came.  Notice the two areas that I circled.  This was definitely leaking oil.  Ironically, I noticed the leaks on the other side next to the injectors as leaking worse.  When I cleaned the gasket material off of the valve cover, there was a noticeable area where this was leaking on this side.  On the injector side, it looked good.  I am going to clean up and probably paint the valve cover since it is off, so it will be a little while before I can put it back on.  According to the manual, it says 4 lbs of torque, which seems not very much.  However, it didn't take a lot of pulling on the cover screws to get them loose.  I haven't been able to locate those special screws off of the 7040 mentioned earlier.  Seems they come in different models.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 9:24am
Thanks for the topic. I was pretty sure the injectors were leaking on my 185, in addition to the valve cover, maybe mines just the valve cover too. I was worried about trying to pul the injectors and breaking one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 9:58am
Allis Dave, It may be 3 weeks or more before I can report back on fixing this valve cover and if this stops all of my leaks.  I am going to Florida for Spring Break so may not get this done before I leave.  Hopefully, I will install it correctly the first time, but I have bad luck due to inexperience. :-)   One of the wild cards that might have caused the leaks above the injectors to be somewhat newly acquired, is the fact that I pumped a bunch of diesel fuel into my crankcase oil when I reinstalled the rebuilt injection pump.  One of the side affects is that my oil is extremely clean now, but did this diesel fuel affect the gasket?  DrAllis gave it a one percent chance that the injector is leaking, so there is a chance the injectors are leaking, but he is pretty spot on on his recommendations for me.  I don't want to mess with the injectors either on a perfectly running tractor so hoping the valve cover is the issue.  I am hoping to paint it at some point, but need to stop all of the leaks before I do this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 10:25am
Found this when looking up a 7040. Is this the new style bolt with spring that you guys are talking about? Looks like a good fix if leaks tend to be an issue on these
"Fastener Kit" p/n 74036977
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 11:26am
Dave that is the one!!

They are great, I have changed all my tractors over to them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DrAllis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 12:12pm
Even after replacing a valve cover gasket, there will be a certain amount of bleeding that continues until the injector bores are completely dried out. DON'T PANIC WHEN U THINK IT'S STILL LEAKING.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LeonR2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 2:42pm
As a good rule of thumb, tighten them as if you are using a large screwdriver to do it with, You won't over tighten that way. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote calico190xt68 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Mar 2018 at 3:34pm
DrAllis, thanks for letting me know on the leaking that may occur because I would panic and cuss a lot. Just how long do I let the leak go before I do panic?

leonR2013, thanks for that suggestion on Screwdriver tight.

Another follow up question would be cleaning of the head surface. None of my gasket material stuck to the head which is good, and I was going to use brake cleaner to clean the metal head surface. Should I do anything else or use something else to clean the mating surface for the valve cover?

I also wanted to clarify that I did not remove the exhaust stack nor air pre-filter to raise the hood. My stack hole was already tore up and the pre-filter was rigged up so I could just loosen it. I have another post on the pre-filter issue I discovered.

Thanks everybody for feedback so far.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Allis dave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2018 at 7:04am
I do one of 2 way. Use breakclean on the head and a rag. Keep scrubbing with a rag until you're sure that you've got it clean.
 
If it's kinda gunky and you've got a die grinder, you can get one of those 3m scotch bright wheels to clean it up, then break clean. Make sure you dont' get the ones that have any grit in them or you'll start taking off material. Do get to crazy with wheels though, it's still possible to take off a little metal.
 
Now that I typed that I thought.... You still have the hood on. You probably cant really get a die grinder in there anyway...
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