My poor 6080.....

well at least you used a tractor that could handle it! next time use one of them green things and see how you come out!

Tires loaded?

I'm not sure if the "why" was directed at my question or not.

If it is I was just thinking that tractor should have no issues pulling a set of 3 bottoms - with ease.

Back when I had my smaller 4 bottoms I pulled those with my D17. Tires were loaded as was the front.

With that said, all my 7000 did with 4 bottoms was sit and spin, until the tires were loaded, then it pulled them with no problem.

Tbone95 wrote: Why......doesn't the traction booster do a better job of maintaining depth? In other words, why should it "suck down 14"? Eldon, I'm not slamming in any way, as this is a lot like my experiences as well. Orange and Green. What gives?

I think the problem is with the weight of the plow...even with the gauge wheel it wants to go down. Maybe the hydraulic pump is getting a little weak also, as it will not pick up the plow when it is in the ground sitting still...and sometimes barely when moving. There is a lot of weight back there, I can't believe I used to use it on my 175D. If I hit a wet spot and tried to lift the plow, the front end would come up but the plow would stay in the ground and pull me over into the plowed ground. If I hit the brake, it would just dig down.

Eldon (WA) wrote: Tbone95 wrote: Why......doesn't the traction booster do a better job of maintaining depth? In other words, why should it "suck down 14"? Eldon, I'm not slamming in any way, as this is a lot like my experiences as well. Orange and Green. What gives? I think the problem is with the weight of the plow...even with the gauge wheel it wants to go down. Maybe the hydraulic pump is getting a little weak also, as it will not pick up the plow when it is in the ground sitting still...and sometimes barely when moving. There is a lot of weight back there, I can't believe I used to use it on my 175D. If I hit a wet spot and tried to lift the plow, the front end would come up but the plow would stay in the ground and pull me over into the plowed ground. If I hit the brake, it would just dig down.

Hmm... yeah, maybe a combination of weight and pump. I honestly don't know.

I consider myself still relatively new to Allis. I have a 7045. My go to plowing tractor for many years before that was a JD 2640. Basically 1/2 the horsepower. Before the 2640, the go to plow tractor was a Massey Ferguson 165. On the 165 we used a 3-16 mounted (fully integral) plow, and honestly anytime the going got rough at all, it was all or more than it could handle. That's what I first learned to plow with like over 35 years ago!

The 165 had loaded rears and 640 pounds of weight on the front. There is a rather large area of clay in one field I remember learning in. That tractor would be nose high, wheel cranked to the left, feathering the left brake enough to try to hold it over to the left without robbing too much power, plow riding up out of the ground where you'd only be plowing a few inches deep, and it would still pull the tractor way over to the plowed ground side. By the time you got ready to finish the dead furrow, you'd have a huge wedge to fill in from where the tractor would track in the easier ground at the front of the field to where it got pulled way over pass after pass in that clay. Anyway...

We got the 2640 and even on some of the tougher fields, it seemed to toy with that little 3-16, so we bought a 4-16 semi mount, actually an Allis monoframe hydraulic reset, though we've since moved on from that plow for various reasons but that tractor and Allis plow was a fantastic combination. To this day, I feel like that was the best plowing I did in my life. Productive and nice turn over. The 4-16 semi mount we have now seems extremely finicky. On a JD tractor, rather than a "Traction Booster" there is a "draft mode selector lever" (that's my term for it, not sure the true JD name for it). On that lever, there are 4 settings where 1 end is full position control, it should maintain a 3 pt hitch position regardless of load. The other end of the settings is supposed to be the most variable as far as depth. When there is very little load to the rock shaft, it sinks like a rock, then should lift "way" out of the ground encounter a heavy reaction to the rock shaft. The 2 settings in the middle are a blended response of depth/draft load.

Using the Allis plow, one of the 2 settings in the middle did a great job of turning over a nice furrow with a fairly consistent depth and response to varying conditions. My current plow, it's a struggle. You're constantly farting around with the depth lever, trying to keep it deep enough in hard going and trying to keep it from sucking all the way up to the frame in sand. Could be a combination of problems: It's a different plow and I do not have a book for it, and perhaps there is some kind of adjustment on the plow that I don't understand and haven't gotten right for my tractor. Or, hey, the tractor is much older now and maybe something isn't working correctly with the hydraulic system. I tend to think that's not the case, because it seems to me I had trouble ever since we got that plow. Maybe I'm just old and bitter!

So now we have the 7045. Hook that beast up to the 4-16 and you feel sorry for the plow. It obviously toys with that plow. Thing is, it's like the opposite situation as compared to Eldon's. He has a heavy plow relative to the tractor, I have a toy plow relative to the tractor. He isn't getting a controlling response from his traction booster, I don't get a controlling response to my traction booster. I always figure in my situation, the plow pulled so easy nothing ever got sensed. If you aren't watching, it'll sink damn near up to the frame in sand, and no load on the engine, no response from the TB. You'll bend the dang hitch points on the plow and no response from the tractor ( yes, I wasn't watching close enough! )

So what's a guy to do? I bought a bigger plow naturally. I have a 6 bottom variable width. I shoot for setting it at 16". I struggle mightily to do a good job plowing with it. There's so many adjustments on that plow and what it tells you to do with the tractor, it's overwhelming and I honestly just don't get it. It seems there are contradictions and combinations where you can't do it or one thing contradicts the other. But over and above all that, the TB does not seem to do what I had envisioned it was for while plowing with that tractor and plow. So what, I own 2 plows and one is too small for the tractor and one is too big for the tractor??? I'm pretty sure my traction booster works, as you can tell a difference in the way the 3pt behaves from one end of the setting to the other, I think I must either expect too much from it, don't really understand how it is supposed to work or what it does, or maybe there is a problem with it, IDK!

I do know, I've been plowing over 35 years, and I'm back to thinking I have no idea what the heck I'm doing!!! Frustrating....

I had trouble with my 6080 raising batwing on my mower.I checked the hyd pressure,adjusted it & works fine.Real easy to do.

Tbone95 wrote: Eldon (WA) wrote: Tbone95 wrote: Why......doesn't the traction booster do a better job of maintaining depth? In other words, why should it "suck down 14"? Eldon, I'm not slamming in any way, as this is a lot like my experiences as well. Orange and Green. What gives? I think the problem is with the weight of the plow...even with the gauge wheel it wants to go down. Maybe the hydraulic pump is getting a little weak also, as it will not pick up the plow when it is in the ground sitting still...and sometimes barely when moving. There is a lot of weight back there, I can't believe I used to use it on my 175D. If I hit a wet spot and tried to lift the plow, the front end would come up but the plow would stay in the ground and pull me over into the plowed ground. If I hit the brake, it would just dig down. Hmm... yeah, maybe a combination of weight and pump. I honestly don't know. I consider myself still relatively new to Allis. I have a 7045. My go to plowing tractor for many years before that was a JD 2640. Basically 1/2 the horsepower. Before the 2640, the go to plow tractor was a Massey Ferguson 165. On the 165 we used a 3-16 mounted (fully integral) plow, and honestly anytime the going got rough at all, it was all or more than it could handle. That's what I first learned to plow with like over 35 years ago! The 165 had loaded rears and 640 pounds of weight on the front. There is a rather large area of clay in one field I remember learning in. That tractor would be nose high, wheel cranked to the left, feathering the left brake enough to try to hold it over to the left without robbing too much power, plow riding up out of the ground where you'd only be plowing a few inches deep, and it would still pull the tractor way over to the plowed ground side. By the time you got ready to finish the dead furrow, you'd have a huge wedge to fill in from where the tractor would track in the easier ground at the front of the field to where it got pulled way over pass after pass in that clay. Anyway... We got the 2640 and even on some of the tougher fields, it seemed to toy with that little 3-16, so we bought a 4-16 semi mount, actually an Allis monoframe hydraulic reset, though we've since moved on from that plow for various reasons but that tractor and Allis plow was a fantastic combination. To this day, I feel like that was the best plowing I did in my life. Productive and nice turn over. The 4-16 semi mount we have now seems extremely finicky. On a JD tractor, rather than a "Traction Booster" there is a "draft mode selector lever" (that's my term for it, not sure the true JD name for it). On that lever, there are 4 settings where 1 end is full position control, it should maintain a 3 pt hitch position regardless of load. The other end of the settings is supposed to be the most variable as far as depth. When there is very little load to the rock shaft, it sinks like a rock, then should lift "way" out of the ground encounter a heavy reaction to the rock shaft. The 2 settings in the middle are a blended response of depth/draft load. Using the Allis plow, one of the 2 settings in the middle did a great job of turning over a nice furrow with a fairly consistent depth and response to varying conditions. My current plow, it's a struggle. You're constantly farting around with the depth lever, trying to keep it deep enough in hard going and trying to keep it from sucking all the way up to the frame in sand. Could be a combination of problems: It's a different plow and I do not have a book for it, and perhaps there is some kind of adjustment on the plow that I don't understand and haven't gotten right for my tractor. Or, hey, the tractor is much older now and maybe something isn't working correctly with the hydraulic system. I tend to think that's not the case, because it seems to me I had trouble ever since we got that plow. Maybe I'm just old and bitter! So now we have the 7045. Hook that beast up to the 4-16 and you feel sorry for the plow. It obviously toys with that plow. Thing is, it's like the opposite situation as compared to Eldon's. He has a heavy plow relative to the tractor, I have a toy plow relative to the tractor. He isn't getting a controlling response from his traction booster, I don't get a controlling response to my traction booster. I always figure in my situation, the plow pulled so easy nothing ever got sensed. If you aren't watching, it'll sink damn near up to the frame in sand, and no load on the engine, no response from the TB. You'll bend the dang hitch points on the plow and no response from the tractor ( yes, I wasn't watching close enough! ) So what's a guy to do? I bought a bigger plow naturally. I have a 6 bottom variable width. I shoot for setting it at 16". I struggle mightily to do a good job plowing with it. There's so many adjustments on that plow and what it tells you to do with the tractor, it's overwhelming and I honestly just don't get it. It seems there are contradictions and combinations where you can't do it or one thing contradicts the other. But over and above all that, the TB does not seem to do what I had envisioned it was for while plowing with that tractor and plow. So what, I own 2 plows and one is too small for the tractor and one is too big for the tractor??? I'm pretty sure my traction booster works, as you can tell a difference in the way the 3pt behaves from one end of the setting to the other, I think I must either expect too much from it, don't really understand how it is supposed to work or what it does, or maybe there is a problem with it, IDK! I do know, I've been plowing over 35 years, and I'm back to thinking I have no idea what the heck I'm doing!!! Frustrating....

I feel your pain....how much time do you spend trying to figure out the problem when you still do a decent job? Most times it is not worth the extra effort to fine tune to the soils at hand when the job is so small.
I think any tractor, any plow would have had problems plowing what I plowed....except maybe a 200 hp tractor with a 4 btm w/ on land hitch!
I do have a pull type IH 4-18 that may have worked better, but very tough to transport on a trailer, and prefer the roll-over for these jobs.

Three thoughts:

1) Doesnt take much to pick the front end up on a 6080.

2). Very few tractors are better in mud than a 6080. A 6080 will prance past a stuck D series.

3). If the traction booster didn't impose on Eldon Im jealous. Allis's worse idea ever.

JohnCO wrote: Is that a Northwest tiller?  Those are tough machines!

Yes, made in Yakima, WA. The 6080 actually handles it better than the 190 since it has slower gears....but if the roller gets full of mud I can't pick it up. I use it only when soil conditions are right. I have an 80" Howard on my 185 that is my main tiller, and can handle wet conditions better. I rarely use my 60" Howards anymore...you get spoiled with the bigger ones!

victoryallis wrote: Three thoughts: 3). If the traction booster didn't impose on Eldon Im jealous. Allis's worse idea ever.

Care to elaborate?

The traction booster was designed to allow weight transfer from the implement to the tractor without changing the depth of the plow. It's the best thing since sliced bread when properly adjusted.

Tbone

You know I love plowing. Lol
Bad part is I got 25 acres that will need plowing this year. Ugh

Looking at the plow in the first photo, it looks a lot like our Deere 4200. Ours has a tendency to dig in and pull very hard, too. I'm not sure it's a problem with the traction booster as much as it is with the design of the plow

matador wrote: Looking at the plow in the first photo, it looks a lot like our Deere 4200. Ours has a tendency to dig in and pull very hard, too. I'm not sure it's a problem with the traction booster as much as it is with the design of the plow

No way, that's a terrible excuse for how it's supposed to work. What's the difference between a poorly designed plow that pulls hard at 6 inches or a wonderful plow that pulls great at 10 inches? At some point, the load sensed by the TB would be the same regardless of the job the plow is doing. It can sense draft pull, but not color!

Well, gee, sure Lonn. And I've done a great job of plowing for many of the 100's and 1000 hours that I have plowed. The question surrounds the Traction booster performance Eldon, Victory, and myself have been having from time to time over seemingly very heavy loads and seemingly very light loads. A 7045 has what, nearly 100 more HP than a D17?