My poor 6080.....
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Category: Allis Chalmers
Forum Name: Farm Equipment
Forum Description: everything about Allis-Chalmers farm equipment
URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=138100
Printed Date: 27 Dec 2025 at 11:19am
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Topic: My poor 6080.....
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Subject: My poor 6080.....
Date Posted: 04 May 2017 at 10:15pm
Went to do a small job up at the north end of the local lake, about an acre to plow for a young couple wanting to start an organic farm. I was thinking it was just a nice sandy loam, turn it over plowing job. I was wrong...it was wet sod, so wet that when you stood on the overturned sod and took your foot off of it you could see water...like a big heavy sponge. I think it had peat in it as it rolled out in a continuous ribbon, but they claimed the soil test didn't mention any. Anyway, I had the front end of the poor old 6080 in the air more times than I can count. Never got stuck, luckily, as I don't think their 30hp Kubota would have pulled me out  Every time I hit a clay ribbon there would be sand under it and the plow would suck down about 14" and the furrow wheel would spin out. To top it off, it was our first 80 degree day of the year and I was sweatin with just the blower working! Anyway, got it done, 2500 RPM in 1M was all she could pull the 3-18's. I expect them to call next week after they try to disc it down....not sure if I want to go back there....Tractor pic before I put the front suitcase weights on... http://s29.photobucket.com/user/ejons/media/030_zpsb6793c24.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Replies:
Posted By: shameless dude
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 1:38am
| well at least you used a tractor that could handle it! next time use one of them green things and see how you come out! |
Posted By: dt1050
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 3:16am
|
wow, glad ya didn't get stuck or brake anything. we have a few inches of top soil and then yellow clay and rock, so ya don't dare drop the plows to deep. that's a nice machine ya got!! ------------- Just cause it's orange don't make it a tractor, there's only one..Allis Chalmers |
Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 6:12am
|
Tires loaded? |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 6:38am
| Why......doesn't the traction booster do a better job of maintaining depth? In other words, why should it "suck down 14"? Eldon, I'm not slamming in any way, as this is a lot like my experiences as well. Orange and Green. What gives? |
Posted By: Play Farmer
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 6:56am
|
I'm not sure if the "why" was directed at my question or not. If it is I was just thinking that tractor should have no issues pulling a set of 3 bottoms - with ease. Back when I had my smaller 4 bottoms I pulled those with my D17. Tires were loaded as was the front. With that said, all my 7000 did with 4 bottoms was sit and spin, until the tires were loaded, then it pulled them with no problem. |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 7:02am
|
Play farmer, my why was not directed at you. Directed at the general forum, as I really want to know why the traction booster doesn't handle Eldon's (and my) situation better. Yeah, gotta have weight to put power to the ground because that takes traction, and that torque will lift the front end up, requiring weight to hold it down. That's physics regardless of color, all the paint weighs about the same. |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 9:51am
I think the problem is with the weight of the plow...even with the gauge wheel it wants to go down. Maybe the hydraulic pump is getting a little weak also, as it will not pick up the plow when it is in the ground sitting still...and sometimes barely when moving. There is a lot of weight back there, I can't believe I used to use it on my 175D. If I hit a wet spot and tried to lift the plow, the front end would come up but the plow would stay in the ground and pull me over into the plowed ground. If I hit the brake, it would just dig down. ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Tbone95 wrote:Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 9:53am
Like new 18.4 x 34 radials and loaded, 800lbs of suitcase weights on the front. ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 12:18pm
Hmm... yeah, maybe a combination of weight and pump. I honestly don't know. I consider myself still relatively new to Allis. I have a 7045. My go to plowing tractor for many years before that was a JD 2640. Basically 1/2 the horsepower. Before the 2640, the go to plow tractor was a Massey Ferguson 165. On the 165 we used a 3-16 mounted (fully integral) plow, and honestly anytime the going got rough at all, it was all or more than it could handle. That's what I first learned to plow with like over 35 years ago! The 165 had loaded rears and 640 pounds of weight on the front. There is a rather large area of clay in one field I remember learning in. That tractor would be nose high, wheel cranked to the left, feathering the left brake enough to try to hold it over to the left without robbing too much power, plow riding up out of the ground where you'd only be plowing a few inches deep, and it would still pull the tractor way over to the plowed ground side. By the time you got ready to finish the dead furrow, you'd have a huge wedge to fill in from where the tractor would track in the easier ground at the front of the field to where it got pulled way over pass after pass in that clay. Anyway... We got the 2640 and even on some of the tougher fields, it seemed to toy with that little 3-16, so we bought a 4-16 semi mount, actually an Allis monoframe hydraulic reset, though we've since moved on from that plow for various reasons but that tractor and Allis plow was a fantastic combination. To this day, I feel like that was the best plowing I did in my life. Productive and nice turn over. The 4-16 semi mount we have now seems extremely finicky. On a JD tractor, rather than a "Traction Booster" there is a "draft mode selector lever" (that's my term for it, not sure the true JD name for it). On that lever, there are 4 settings where 1 end is full position control, it should maintain a 3 pt hitch position regardless of load. The other end of the settings is supposed to be the most variable as far as depth. When there is very little load to the rock shaft, it sinks like a rock, then should lift "way" out of the ground encounter a heavy reaction to the rock shaft. The 2 settings in the middle are a blended response of depth/draft load. Using the Allis plow, one of the 2 settings in the middle did a great job of turning over a nice furrow with a fairly consistent depth and response to varying conditions. My current plow, it's a struggle. You're constantly farting around with the depth lever, trying to keep it deep enough in hard going and trying to keep it from sucking all the way up to the frame in sand. Could be a combination of problems: It's a different plow and I do not have a book for it, and perhaps there is some kind of adjustment on the plow that I don't understand and haven't gotten right for my tractor. Or, hey, the tractor is much older now and maybe something isn't working correctly with the hydraulic system. I tend to think that's not the case, because it seems to me I had trouble ever since we got that plow. Maybe I'm just old and bitter! So now we have the 7045. Hook that beast up to the 4-16 and you feel sorry for the plow. It obviously toys with that plow. Thing is, it's like the opposite situation as compared to Eldon's. He has a heavy plow relative to the tractor, I have a toy plow relative to the tractor. He isn't getting a controlling response from his traction booster, I don't get a controlling response to my traction booster. I always figure in my situation, the plow pulled so easy nothing ever got sensed. If you aren't watching, it'll sink damn near up to the frame in sand, and no load on the engine, no response from the TB. You'll bend the dang hitch points on the plow and no response from the tractor (  yes, I wasn't watching close enough!  )So what's a guy to do? I bought a bigger plow naturally. I have a 6 bottom variable width. I shoot for setting it at 16". I struggle mightily to do a good job plowing with it. There's so many adjustments on that plow and what it tells you to do with the tractor, it's overwhelming and I honestly just don't get it. It seems there are contradictions and combinations where you can't do it or one thing contradicts the other. But over and above all that, the TB does not seem to do what I had envisioned it was for while plowing with that tractor and plow. So what, I own 2 plows and one is too small for the tractor and one is too big for the tractor??? I'm pretty sure my traction booster works, as you can tell a difference in the way the 3pt behaves from one end of the setting to the other, I think I must either expect too much from it, don't really understand how it is supposed to work or what it does, or maybe there is a problem with it, IDK! I do know, I've been plowing over 35 years, and I'm back to thinking I have no idea what the heck I'm doing!!! Frustrating.... |
Posted By: SteveM C/IL
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 1:17pm
| tbone,I have no idea for sure but I suppose it's possible that some specific adjustments are out of spec on the tractor for sensing TB.I know the book on my 220 and 8070 go into lotta detail on adjustment for the 3pt and TB. |
Posted By: Billoh
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 6:32pm
| I had trouble with my 6080 raising batwing on my mower.I checked the hyd pressure,adjusted it & works fine.Real easy to do. |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 9:09pm
|
If the ground was that wet when plowed, will it bake up into bricks with sun on it? I know you have some "different" soils out there, but if you did that here in the spring, you would probably have to wait for a couple three hard freezes to get the lumps out of it.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 9:16pm
I feel your pain....how much time do you spend trying to figure out the problem when you still do a decent job? Most times it is not worth the extra effort to fine tune to the soils at hand when the job is so small. I think any tractor, any plow would have had problems plowing what I plowed....except maybe a 200 hp tractor with a 4 btm w/ on land hitch! I do have a pull type IH 4-18 that may have worked better, but very tough to transport on a trailer, and prefer the roll-over for these jobs. ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 9:27pm
I still think this has some peat in it...my guess it will turn to "flour" when disced down. I've only worked peat ground once before and hated it! I think if they call me back I will insist on using the 8' rotovator w/packing wheel. I think one pass will do it. This guy is a beast to haul, but does a good job if it isn't too wet! http://s29.photobucket.com/user/ejons/media/Implements/05-14-09007-1.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 9:34pm
|
Three thoughts: 1) Doesnt take much to pick the front end up on a 6080. 2). Very few tractors are better in mud than a 6080. A 6080 will prance past a stuck D series. 3). If the traction booster didn't impose on Eldon Im jealous. Allis's worse idea ever. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 11:10pm
|
Is that a Northwest tiller? Those are tough machines!
------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: Eldon (WA)
Date Posted: 05 May 2017 at 11:20pm
------------- ALLIS EXPRESS! This year: |
Posted By: CTuckerNWIL
Date Posted: 06 May 2017 at 11:10am
|
I've been in peat before. There are places where , one day you can't find the bottom with your tires, a couple weeks later you can't work it with any wind blowing for the dust cloud.
------------- http://www.ae-ta.com" rel="nofollow - http://www.ae-ta.com Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 6:41am
Care to elaborate? |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 7:00am
|
Not a fan of automatic draft control at all. Hate having 2 levers to get full range of the lift arms. My other issue is we have a 3 pt bean planter and had skips when it was on the 7000 because it spun a tiny bit in a soft spot and picked the planter up a tiny bit so the drive tires didn't contact the ground. If I'm pulling something from the drawbar I'm the one that decides when it's time to pick it up a bit and I feel 3 point should be the same. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Stan IL&TN
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 9:13am
|
The traction booster was designed to allow weight transfer from the implement to the tractor without changing the depth of the plow. It's the best thing since sliced bread when properly adjusted. ------------- 1957 WD45 dad's first AC 1968 one-seventy 1956 F40 Ferguson |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 10:05am
Yeah, that's what is supposed to do.... And when you love plowing as much as mr. Victory does....  It seems he should have been able to pull his planter with the traction booster lever all the way to the "Position End" of it's travel and not had an issue with spin and lift. So is his too sensitive? It seems mine should keep my plow, even the 4 bottom, from not sinking all the way over the coulter axels and bending the hitch points. Is mine not sensitive enough? It must lift the implement some, very very little, yes, but some. So what's with all the dang adjustment? Why can't it work as delivered? Seems there should be enough adjustment in the lever actuation itself, one shouldn't have to fart around with all the linkages and crap to get it right. If something is old/worn/stuck, sure, but why so finicky to get it to function when everything is seemingly OK? That's what I don't get. |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 08 May 2017 at 9:03pm
|
Tbone You know I love plowing. Lol Bad part is I got 25 acres that will need plowing this year. Ugh ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 6:31am
| Why? What's going on? |
Posted By: matador
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 11:10am
| Looking at the plow in the first photo, it looks a lot like our Deere 4200. Ours has a tendency to dig in and pull very hard, too. I'm not sure it's a problem with the traction booster as much as it is with the design of the plow |
Posted By: victoryallis
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 11:33am
|
Possible organic only new landlord. ------------- 8030 and 8050MFWD, 7580, 3 6080's, 160, 7060, 175, heirloom D17, Deere 8760 |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 12:23pm
No way, that's a terrible excuse for how it's supposed to work. What's the difference between a poorly designed plow that pulls hard at 6 inches or a wonderful plow that pulls great at 10 inches? At some point, the load sensed by the TB would be the same regardless of the job the plow is doing. It can sense draft pull, but not color! |
Posted By: Lonn
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 2:17pm
|
It's all in adjustment. I can plow great with a 4 bottom fully mounted on the D17. Traction Booster works great. Plowing is an art not a get on and go procedure. But I prefer to chisel. ------------- -- --- .... .- -- -- .- -.. / .-- .- ... / .- / -- ..- .-. -.. . .-. .. -. --. / -.-. .... .. .-.. -.. / .-. .- .--. .. ... - Wink I am a Russian Bot |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 2:38pm
| Well, gee, sure Lonn. And I've done a great job of plowing for many of the 100's and 1000 hours that I have plowed. The question surrounds the Traction booster performance Eldon, Victory, and myself have been having from time to time over seemingly very heavy loads and seemingly very light loads. A 7045 has what, nearly 100 more HP than a D17? |
Posted By: Tbone95
Date Posted: 09 May 2017 at 2:40pm
| Is a D17 top link sensed? Fully mounted and semi mounted present a whole different set of adjustments. |