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soften metal,,,?? |
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13714 |
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I been buggin ole Coke on procedure to dis-assemble the rotary cylinder on the Mark IV,,,and he has been a great help,,, ![]() ![]() I got a question for the gurus on tempering metal. The cylinder has 6 allen headed ,,1/4" pipe plugs that have to be removed to access some pins that have to be removed. One of the pipe plugs got buggered up and allen started slipping on plug,,,,ARGGgggg,,,!!! ![]() What is the procedure to "soften" the plug in order to drill it out,,,??? |
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thendrix ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 5092 |
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Use a good quality drill, plenty of oil, and low rpm to keep the heat down and you should be able to drill it. I doubt you could do any good trying to anneal it. It being a set screw it should have a point in the center of the socket that will help center your drill. Drill through first with a drill slightly larger then the hex. Then go through with the tap drill and you should be able to get it through. Pull the threads out with a pick and some pliers, run a tap through the hole, hole is fixed.
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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Gerald J. ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |
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Softening hard steel takes heating it red hot and cooling it slowly. With the screw in the parts its going to cool fast. But sometimes that makes it come out easily because it expanded while it was hot and jelly soft and the surrounding metal didn't let it expand so when it cools its smaller than it was and so can come loose.
For drilling a left hand bit can be handy, first it puts a force on the screw to remove it from the threads, and then when it catches its as good as an easy out that is easily broken in hardened screws. Gerald J. |
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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If it is pipe plugs, they should be soft. Best thing to do is lay a nut on top of plug, weld nut to plug through hole. MACK
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Michael V (NM) ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: NM Points: 2474 |
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can ya weld a nut or something else to the plug? I'd try that before drilling,, heat and maybe tac welding a sacrificial wrench to the offending plug? I'd really study the darn thing before drilling,,, but my drilling out broken studs, nuts etc., usually don't go well
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13714 |
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See,,,I DID get it to come out bout 3 threads before it galled and wouldn't move no more,,either in or out,,,then the allen i was using started to slip in the head. Reason I said it was hardened steel is,,, I got a cold chiesel and was gonna try to turn it with the chiesel but all that happened was it mushroomed the cheisel edge,,,,!! and did NOTHING to the plug,,!! I think I will try the slow drill in the morning . I saw several posts on Youtube bout using masonary drill bits for drillin hardened steel,,,,????? anybody try that,,,,?? Thanks for all the suggestions, Guys,,,!!! ![]() |
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Unit3 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 Oct 2009 Location: NC Iowa Points: 5602 |
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Not that it would do any good, but I would also use a hammer and punch in the screw. Then try to turn it out. Then when that doesn't work, and it won't, then drill.
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2-8070FWA PS/8050PS/7080/7045PS/200/D15-II/2-WD45/WD/3-WC/UC/C
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7060 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 16 Sep 2009 Location: Missouri Points: 1148 |
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If it's small sometimes I weld a flat washer on first and then weld the nut to the washer around the edge.
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LeonR2013 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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Joe, I've had very good success taking a brazing tip and heating it red hot. Let it cool all he way and then give it a try. If you have messed up the threads it's drill and tap time as already suggested.
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shameless (ne) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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weld a vise grips to it, duct tape and wire a steel fence post to the vise grips, puts panther pee on it, then rock the tractor back and forth every morning for a month or so! go work on something else or drink beers in between times.
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j birke ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 19 Apr 2012 Location: Mo Points: 126 |
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Before you go drilling it out take a tig welder to the center of the plug warm it up. Then grab a metric Allen wrench and drive it in normally will come out with out problem.
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25-40, WD-45, D14, D17D, D19G, D19G, D19D, D19D, 185, 190G, 190D, 200, 7000, 7060, and 8030
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13714 |
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Thet Dang Shameless,,,,, ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Hey J Birke,,,after the 1/4" allen wrench had slipped a time or two,,I did sorta drive a 7MM allen wrench (which is slightly bigger than the 1/4" one" into the hex,,and it slipped also,,,, I think,,I will try the slow drill out of the center portion of the pipe plug, and use an ease-out,,,??? this "should" leave enough meat on the plug for tryin the followin,,,, I don't have a TIG,,but if the drill out idea don't work,,thinkin bout tryin my Mig welder to weld a nut onto the plug and give that a go,,,,, ![]() Thanks for all the ideas,,, ![]() |
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MACK ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 17 Nov 2009 Points: 7664 |
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Welding a nut to the plug will also shrink the plug after it cools. A masonry bit will drill about any hard metal, but I would try other ways, before drilling. MACK
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 12210 |
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Masonry bit is carbide tipped....so hard as a wedding night, well, ...
So if you have one, give it a try, or could buy a couple of solid carbide drills. Pricey, but will cut any hard steel at slow speed. |
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thendrix ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 04 Feb 2013 Location: Fairmount GA Points: 5092 |
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Be careful with carbide. It's extremely hard and, there for, very brittle
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"Farming is a business that makes a Las Vegas craps table look like a regular paycheck" Ronald Reagan
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Tbone95 ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 31 Aug 2012 Location: Michigan Points: 12210 |
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^Yep.
That's why I said get a couple! ![]() Edited by Tbone95 - 28 Jul 2016 at 10:10am |
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WDDave ![]() Silver Level ![]() Joined: 02 Jun 2016 Location: pa Points: 68 |
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desertjoe,
Weld a nut on if you can sounds like a good first try since you say it has moved a few turns. If it comes down to drilling it out it will take a lot of pressure to get a masonry drill to drill hardened steel the carbide tip just doesn't have the right edge ground on it for cutting steel. Cobalt drills are harder than regular High speed drills but not as brittle as carbide so are a little tougher, keep the speed low and use some oil. Dewalt has cobalt drills you can probably find them in a big box store. I have also drilled hardened steel with Hi-Roc drills or 2 flute carbide drill, can be done dry speed can be faster. I have burned thru hardened tool steel with these with sparks flying. A BIG word of caution though if using any carbide as thendrix said these are hard and brittle and can break easy so if you get a piece of carbide broke off in the piece you have a real problem. Good luck |
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WD ,wide front, with loader
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Jacob (WI,ND) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: Kenmare, ND Points: 1248 |
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Might be beyond this but I'll throw it out there anyways. Dad has told me that at work he uses a set of the allen wrenches with the socket adapter on them, but these are slightly TAPERED so you can drive them into the slightly bad screw head to get a good solid bite before they are totally stripped out. Says they work really good and have saved him a bunch of times.
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Jacob Swanson
1920 6-12; 1925,1926 20-35 longfenders; 1925,1926 15-25's; 1927,1929 20-35 shortfenders; C; B's; IB; WC's; WD; WD45 |
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LeonR2013 ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 01 Jan 2013 Location: Fulton, Mo Points: 3500 |
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Well Joe you got plenty of suggestions and no doubt they've all worked one time or another. But nobody mentioned diamond tipped bits. I didn't want to say anything about them cause I was afraid you'd go into sticker shock and keel over. But they will work.
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Gerald J. ![]() Orange Level ![]() Joined: 12 Sep 2009 Location: Hamilton Co, IA Points: 5636 |
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Are you sure its the right size allen wrench, they come in metric too? Are you sure its not Torx, they kind of look like allen but allen wrenches slip easily.
Gerald J. |
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13714 |
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Well,I went out this mornin armed with all these great suggestions and just knew thet soab was comin out,,,NO two ways bout it,,,,,,, ![]() SO,,,,out comes my trusty MIG and like several here suggested,,, I welded a nut around the plug,,,and screwed it out pretty as you please,,,WOW,,,DANG,,,talk bout a BFJ just for this little bitty pipe plug,,,,,Many, many thanks for all the support, Guys,,, ![]() I've decided to remove the whole cylinder as I prolly should replace the top and btm seals,cause you can bet your last can of Black label they WILL leak if I don't,,,,!! NOW,,,I need some input on who or where to contact bout getting these seal kits,,I've read several places that the M/F 50 and 52 are same size,,,????? Edited by desertjoe - 29 Jul 2016 at 3:58am |
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JayIN ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 18 Dec 2009 Location: SE/IN Points: 1982 |
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Minn Par and Massey.
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sometimes I walk out to my shop and look around and think "Who's the idiot that owns this place?"
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13714 |
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Thanks Jay IN,,,I'm gonna call Minn-Par this mornin and sure hope I can talk with ole John there as Gary did not seen to want to look into the issue with me when I last called,,,,, I have 3 different manuals on the Mark IV and one on the MF 52 A,,,and after comparing them and trying to develop a list of PN's from the books,,,they are all different,,,!! The tag on the backhoe has a SN of 1A 686 AC,,but the section for cylinder used PRIOR to MK IV 2A-1248 is NOT the cylinder I have,,,,!! Yet another section of the book for SN MKIV 2A-1248 thru 3A-1355 DOES appear to be the cylinder I have,,,???,,,BUT the part numbers are different yet,,!! SHEEESH,,,,,!!! In tryin to compare with the MF book,I do not see a pic of the cylinder I have,,there some similarities in the barrels, Dang,,I'm sure hopin ole John at Minn-Par can help,,,,cause at this point,,,I;m like Little Red riding Hood,,,,,, ![]() ![]() |
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shameless (ne) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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I thoughts little red riding hood was cute and skinny?
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13714 |
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WHY,,,,YOU,,,,!!! YOU,,,,!!!,,Shameless,,,!!!,AW CHIT it ain't no use tellin you nuttin,,,heck,, you don't listen noways,,,!!!! ![]() Actually,,,,I wasn't alludin to her be'in pretty,,,,Aw Heck,,,you ain't gonna believe me either,,,,,,, ![]() To get back to matters at hand,,,,,,,,I DID NOT DO A CHITTIN bit of good on the backhoe all day,,,and I am pissed very much,,,,,, I was tryin to get one of the big 1 1/2" nuts holdin the cylinder to the frame,,and wouldn't you know it,,,,that soab galled'ed up bout halfway and after messin with it for a few HOURS,,I finally cut the friggin nut off,,the other nut must of seen the fate of it's twin and it gave up and came right on out,,, ![]() Shameless,,,you got any tannerite,,,??? Gosh Dang,,I am pissed'ed good and need a cold Black label,,,,,,, |
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shameless (ne) ![]() Orange Level ![]() ![]() Joined: 08 Jul 2016 Location: nebraska Points: 7463 |
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I gots LOTS of tannerite! but it'll prolly bugger the paint sum!
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JC-WI ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() Joined: 11 Sep 2009 Location: wisconsin Points: 34349 |
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about as helpless as this lill flamen RED?
![]() Are ye sure theres not some stinkin little set screw hiding somewhere? or simply need to put it in a big enough press? |
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He who says there is no evil has already deceived himself
The truth is the truth, sugar coated or not. Trawler II says, "Remember that." |
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desertjoe ![]() Orange Level Access ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 2013 Location: New mexico Points: 13714 |
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YEP,,,YEP,,,JC,,,thas what I need,,,some RED HOT heat to get the thing to break loose,.,,, ![]() Only'ist thing I come up with is MORE HEAT on the friggin splines and hope it breaks loose,,,,, ![]() Shameless always gots some ideas,,,they may be quirky but might work,,,,and,,,,,and,,,don't worry bout the paint,,,at this point,,,,paint is least of my worries,,,,, ![]() |
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