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Something to make the AGCO haters happy

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steffensen View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 7:02pm
Here is an article that should bring a grin to some of your faces. Note there is nothing in the article that says the sky is falling for AGCO; the credit rating continues to rise and the debt ratio is lower than others. But I still thought some people on here would enjoy this.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomYaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 7:35pm
Tough year for stupidhagen...gonna have to forgo the solid gold bidet in the executive bathroom it appears..
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Byron WC in SW Wi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byron WC in SW Wi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 9:19pm
That's kind of a strong title there steffensen.  Do I hear a bit of resentment at your boss for only making 2 million this year? 

I was thinking the other day of a comment he made on some business show about having a lot of temporary employees so they can lay them off easily and save money.  I thought that man doesn't care about tractors, tractor owners or even his own employees.  All he is in for is stock price and your article shows why.   He makes  a lot more money when the stocks do well.

I don't hate AGCO products just have trouble with being lied to by upper management and of course them dropping orange.  Sure wish I could get a Hesston centerline baler but can't do it.  I'm thinking of becoming a New Holland man.  I go between that and just going old AC and trying not to get parts from AGCO.  What do you think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ScottinSWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 9:41pm

 It is too bad they do not have someone from NA running this show.   This whole Agco consolidation thing could have been much easier.   Agco decals only on all colors to make eveyone happy.  I'm still trying to figure out what it takes to be a professional farmer to have the honor of buying CAT yellow--HA HA!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JohnCO Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:05pm
AGCO was up $1.02 today to $35.82.  Somehow, it seems to me that the decision to drop orange will not help the bottom line, as sales and profit were down last year.  Any estimates of how things will go this fiscal year?
Byron, I understand you being upset with AGCO but Hesston balers are great machines and will last a lot longer then the current AGCO commandant.
"If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer"
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morton(pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:50pm
I saw that this morning at school and was going to post it tonight but I guess you beat me to it!!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steffensen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 5:59am

I was laughing the whole time I was typing the title. I thought it might be a little strong, but it was about as strong as the subject line that first got me on the site. I don't have resentment for the salary he makes. I am a little glad its still based on some kind of performance. There are a lot of CEOs out there that still get their full bonus packages no matter what happens. Last year the market was down for everyone, and maybe there was a loss in tractor sales becuase of the announcement and that added to AGCOs loss. If thats true the choice affected the top salaries the way it should. I read that tractor sales were down, but combine sales were up for 2009. So I don't think we can go by last years numbers just yet for determining if the announcement has an effect. The last I heard for estimates is that the year is still looking good but I think we have to wait until 4th quarter to really see the data. Time will tell... 

Oh yeah, your question... I think you should be the best product you can get for the money you want to spend. If that includes the Hesston product, that's okay. And if it leads you to New Holland, again that's okay. The product you buy and the support you get has to be worth the money. I can understand your resentment towards AGCO management, and believe that your business must be earned.

And to be a little technical, the yellow color is not CAT yellow. That was not part of the purchase, and CAT still owns those rights. The color is actually called challenger yellow and is a slighly different shade of yellow. But I also do not know what it takes to be a professional... 


Edited by steffensen - 24 Mar 2010 at 6:20am
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Byron WC in SW Wi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byron WC in SW Wi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 2:28pm
The MF website is way better than the AGCO one and always has been.  I'm sure they've sunk a lot more money into it than AGCO got.  Anyway, I read one of the news release on there about dropping orange and at the bottom it said:

AGCO® and Massey Ferguson® are worldwide brands and registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation.  Challenger® is a registered trademark of Caterpillar, Inc. and is used under license by AGCO Corporation.

I never caught that before.  So, the Challenger name is owned by Caterpillar and AGCO pays them a license fee to put it on some of their tractors?  Man, I don't get that.  One of your core brand names you don't even own. 

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John (C-IL) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John (C-IL) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by Byron WC in SW Wi Byron WC in SW Wi wrote:


I never caught that before.  So, the Challenger name is owned by Caterpillar and AGCO pays them a license fee to put it on some of their tractors?  Man, I don't get that.  One of your core brand names you don't even own. 

 
In reality, CAT got out of the ag market because their low volume and high manufacturing costs weren't as lucrative as their construction equipment business. They entered into an agreement with AGCO to have AGCO produce and market ag equipment for the CAT dealers that wanted to remain in the ag business. Had AGCO not stepped up to the plate CAT would have been left holding the bag on a bunch of orphan equipment that they would have had to continue servicing or find someone to do it for them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steffensen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 3:58pm

Yeah, it's a weird one to describe. AGCO owns the brand, but the trademark (lettering, font, and so on) is owned by CAT.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byron WC in SW Wi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 4:34pm
So who own the bag on the orphan equipment if AGCO goes belly up or decides not to do it anymore?  I can't see how that's a win for CAT at all or the farmer who buys that equipment. 


Edited by Byron WC in SW Wi - 24 Mar 2010 at 4:34pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steffensen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 5:15pm

Here is another twist to the situation: the first 2 generation challenger tractors (35 or 45 for example) are still supported from CAT. But the AGCO generations (MT655 or MT765 for example) are supported from AGCO.  So in the end it depends on the generation of Challenger tractors a farmer owns for who needs to support it.



Edited by steffensen - 24 Mar 2010 at 5:20pm
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John (C-IL) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John (C-IL) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 6:46pm
CAT still wants to be in the ag business and has a vested interest in AGCO succeeding, it wouldn't surprise me at all if AGCO is taking some cues from the CAT business model and in the end CAT could be the savior for AGCO when and if it ever came to pass that someone with deeper pockets needed to step in. CAT just laughs at the ag guys when it come to sales and profitability, as far as business goes they know what they are doing.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote norm [ind] Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 7:16pm
  CHECK YOUR HISTORY  WHO BAILED OUT DEERE IN 1960  WHAT DOES THERE MOTORS LOOK LIKE???????????????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote morton(pa) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 8:49pm
Norm, for those of us who arn't as versed in these things, care to explain? 
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i think it is a shame for orange to go.but the problem is we have set on our butts while they have shipped manufacturing overseas to "earn" more profit for the bigshots pockets. 2 million a year!that is 38,461.54 a week. i could get by on that. barely but i could
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisFreak MN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 10:21pm
Norm, maybe you could enlighten the rest of us on what in the heck you are talking about? And why all the capital letters and question marks?
'49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote redline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 7:10pm
There isn't anybody, anywhere that is working hard enough to make those kinds of wages. No wonder the machinery is so high priced.
Somehow, and I can understand it to a point, managing a company solely for the return for the shareholder is a little short-sighted. It seems that customer satisfaction, and company longevity should be important. Sure you can show a humdinger of a profit if you sell the goose that lays the golden egg, but you sure have limited the company's future. A CEO needs to have a little more vision than just pleasing the stock market.
If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byron WC in SW Wi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:54am
I agree completely.  Doesn't the justification of wall street bonuses seem a little NUTS!  They figure they have to do it to keep talent?????

Makes me wanna look for equipment that comes from family owned companies now.  I don't trust wall street and I don't trust the companies that are out to please them with the bail out and now AGCO. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fred in Pa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 8:51am
Where is my BAT i want to beat this DEAD HORSE >
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Byron WC in SW Wi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 9:22am
Thanks for the empathy and enlightenment Fred.  See ya.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nowversatile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 10:10am
Just an FYI, AGCO's YTD sales have TANNKED (in NA)! YTD, the overall industry is up. AEM numbers confirm this. How's the dictators version of "hope and change" working out at AGCO? Ironic parallel to another "hope and change", seems like they are from the same mold. Wonder how soon they will figure out they miss Orange?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomYaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 11:27am
Originally posted by nowversatile nowversatile wrote:

Just an FYI, AGCO's YTD sales have TANNKED (in NA)! YTD, the overall industry is up. AEM numbers confirm this. How's the dictators version of "hope and change" working out at AGCO? Ironic parallel to another "hope and change", seems like they are from the same mold. Wonder how soon they will figure out they miss Orange?
 
 
Do you have a source you can link for your AEM numbers? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nowversatile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 5:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomYaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steffensen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:31pm
How can you make the claim that the overall industry is up? Your own data says: "Year-to-date sales are down for all segments, except four-wheel drive tractor sales and combine sales." The data is also still showing an industry wide drop over 2009 on wheeled tractors. (-1.2%)  Doesn't sound like overall industry to me...
You can't find the AGCO numbers for year to date yet. Q1 is not finished so there will be nothing officially reported yet. The only thing you have is Q4 of 2009 or all of 2009, and that can't be compared to 2010 data presented and mean anything. When the official Q1 reports are out with the sales reports then we will have something.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stanley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:39pm
I would like to hear more about Norm's post regarding JD.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nowversatile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by steffensen steffensen wrote:

How can you make the claim that the overall industry is up? Your own data says: "Year-to-date sales are down for all segments, except four-wheel drive tractor sales and combine sales." The data is also still showing an industry wide drop over 2009 on wheeled tractors. (-1.2%)  Doesn't sound like overall industry to me...
You can't find the AGCO numbers for year to date yet. Q1 is not finished so there will be nothing officially reported yet. The only thing you have is Q4 of 2009 or all of 2009, and that can't be compared to 2010 data presented and mean anything. When the official Q1 reports are out with the sales reports then we will have something.
 
I am not concerned with under 100HP, they are "sundowners" and landscape contractors for the most part - not really in farming business. When they are subtracted, all segments of the "true" farm segment are up -  a fair bit. No manufacturer will tell you their specific numbers, but it is a known fact that AGCO's internal numbers since the first of year have TAANNKED!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TomYaz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 8:14pm
 
If this is true:
 
"No manufacturer will tell you their specific numbers, "
 
How do you know this:?
 
"but it is a known fact that AGCO's internal numbers since the first of year have TAANNKED! "
 
Dont get me wrong, I bet AGCO numbers WILL tank, but Im not going to bite on heresay. The end of quarter numbers will tell the story. Should know by end of April.
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