Something to make the AGCO haters happy
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Category: Allis Chalmers
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URL: https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9935
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Topic: Something to make the AGCO haters happy
Posted By: steffensen
Subject: Something to make the AGCO haters happy
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 7:02pm
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Here is an article that should bring a grin to some of your faces. Note there is nothing in the article that says the sky is falling for AGCO; the credit rating continues to rise and the debt ratio is lower than others. But I still thought some people on here would enjoy this.
http://www.farm-equipment.com/pages/Industry-News-Agco-CEOs-2009-Pay-Fell-58-To-$2-Million.php - http://www.farm-equipment.com/pages/Industry-News-Agco-CEOs-2009-Pay-Fell-58-To-$2-Million.php
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Replies:
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 7:35pm
| Tough year for stupidhagen...gonna have to forgo the solid gold bidet in the executive bathroom it appears.. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 9:19pm
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That's kind of a strong title there steffensen. Do I hear a bit of resentment at your boss for only making 2 million this year? I was thinking the other day of a comment he made on some business show about having a lot of temporary employees so they can lay them off easily and save money. I thought that man doesn't care about tractors, tractor owners or even his own employees. All he is in for is stock price and your article shows why. He makes a lot more money when the stocks do well. I don't hate AGCO products just have trouble with being lied to by upper management and of course them dropping orange. Sure wish I could get a Hesston centerline baler but can't do it. I'm thinking of becoming a New Holland man. I go between that and just going old AC and trying not to get parts from AGCO. What do you think? |
Posted By: ScottinSWIL
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 9:41pm
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It is too bad they do not have someone from NA running this show. This whole Agco consolidation thing could have been much easier. Agco decals only on all colors to make eveyone happy. I'm still trying to figure out what it takes to be a professional farmer to have the honor of buying CAT yellow--HA HA!! |
Posted By: JohnCO
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:05pm
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AGCO was up $1.02 today to $35.82. Somehow, it seems to me that the decision to drop orange will not help the bottom line, as sales and profit were down last year. Any estimates of how things will go this fiscal year? Byron, I understand you being upset with AGCO but Hesston balers are great machines and will last a lot longer then the current AGCO commandant. ------------- "If at first you don't succeed, get a bigger hammer" Allis Express participant |
Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 23 Mar 2010 at 10:50pm
| I saw that this morning at school and was going to post it tonight but I guess you beat me to it!!!! |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 5:59am
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I was laughing the whole time I was typing the title. I thought it might be a little strong, but it was about as strong as the subject line that first got me on the site. I don't have resentment for the salary he makes. I am a little glad its still based on some kind of performance. There are a lot of CEOs out there that still get their full bonus packages no matter what happens. Last year the market was down for everyone, and maybe there was a loss in tractor sales becuase of the announcement and that added to AGCOs loss. If thats true the choice affected the top salaries the way it should. I read that tractor sales were down, but combine sales were up for 2009. So I don't think we can go by last years numbers just yet for determining if the announcement has an effect. The last I heard for estimates is that the year is still looking good but I think we have to wait until 4th quarter to really see the data. Time will tell... Oh yeah, your question... I think you should be the best product you can get for the money you want to spend. If that includes the Hesston product, that's okay. And if it leads you to New Holland, again that's okay. The product you buy and the support you get has to be worth the money. I can understand your resentment towards AGCO management, and believe that your business must be earned. And to be a little technical, the yellow color is not CAT yellow. That was not part of the purchase, and CAT still owns those rights. The color is actually called challenger yellow and is a slighly different shade of yellow. But I also do not know what it takes to be a professional... |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 2:28pm
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The MF website is way better than the AGCO one and always has been. I'm sure they've sunk a lot more money into it than AGCO got. Anyway, I read one of the news release on there about dropping orange and at the bottom it said: AGCO® and Massey Ferguson® are worldwide brands and registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Challenger® is a registered trademark of Caterpillar, Inc. and is used under license by AGCO Corporation. I never caught that before. So, the Challenger name is owned by Caterpillar and AGCO pays them a license fee to put it on some of their tractors? Man, I don't get that. One of your core brand names you don't even own. |
Posted By: John (C-IL)
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 2:39pm
In reality, CAT got out of the ag market because their low volume and high manufacturing costs weren't as lucrative as their construction equipment business. They entered into an agreement with AGCO to have AGCO produce and market ag equipment for the CAT dealers that wanted to remain in the ag business. Had AGCO not stepped up to the plate CAT would have been left holding the bag on a bunch of orphan equipment that they would have had to continue servicing or find someone to do it for them.
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Byron WC in SW Wi wrote:Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 3:58pm
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Yeah, it's a weird one to describe. AGCO owns the brand, but the trademark (lettering, font, and so on) is owned by CAT. |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 4:34pm
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So who own the bag on the orphan equipment if AGCO goes belly up or decides not to do it anymore? I can't see how that's a win for CAT at all or the farmer who buys that equipment. |
Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 5:15pm
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Here is another twist to the situation: the first 2 generation challenger tractors (35 or 45 for example) are still supported from CAT. But the AGCO generations (MT655 or MT765 for example) are supported from AGCO. So in the end it depends on the generation of Challenger tractors a farmer owns for who needs to support it. |
Posted By: John (C-IL)
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 6:46pm
| CAT still wants to be in the ag business and has a vested interest in AGCO succeeding, it wouldn't surprise me at all if AGCO is taking some cues from the CAT business model and in the end CAT could be the savior for AGCO when and if it ever came to pass that someone with deeper pockets needed to step in. CAT just laughs at the ag guys when it come to sales and profitability, as far as business goes they know what they are doing. |
Posted By: norm [ind]
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 7:16pm
| CHECK YOUR HISTORY WHO BAILED OUT DEERE IN 1960 WHAT DOES THERE MOTORS LOOK LIKE??????????????? |
Posted By: morton(pa)
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 8:49pm
| Norm, for those of us who arn't as versed in these things, care to explain? |
Posted By: dirtyredcub
Date Posted: 24 Mar 2010 at 9:00pm
| i think it is a shame for orange to go.but the problem is we have set on our butts while they have shipped manufacturing overseas to "earn" more profit for the bigshots pockets. 2 million a year!that is 38,461.54 a week. i could get by on that. barely but i could |
Posted By: AllisFreak MN
Date Posted: 25 Mar 2010 at 10:21pm
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Norm, maybe you could enlighten the rest of us on what in the heck you are talking about? And why all the capital letters and question marks? ------------- '49 A-C WD, '51 A-C WD, '63 A-C D17 Series III, 1968 A-C One-Seventy, '82 A-C 6060, '75 A-C 7040, A-C #3 sickle mower, 2 A-C 701 wagons, '78 Gleaner M2 |
Posted By: redline
Date Posted: 26 Mar 2010 at 7:10pm
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There isn't anybody, anywhere that is working hard enough to make those kinds of wages. No wonder the machinery is so high priced.
Somehow, and I can understand it to a point, managing a company solely for the return for the shareholder is a little short-sighted. It seems that customer satisfaction, and company longevity should be important. Sure you can show a humdinger of a profit if you sell the goose that lays the golden egg, but you sure have limited the company's future. A CEO needs to have a little more vision than just pleasing the stock market. ------------- If it weren't for the last minute, I wouldn't get anything done! |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:54am
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I agree completely. Doesn't the justification of wall street bonuses seem a little NUTS! They figure they have to do it to keep talent????? Makes me wanna look for equipment that comes from family owned companies now. I don't trust wall street and I don't trust the companies that are out to please them with the bail out and now AGCO. |
Posted By: Fred in Pa
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 8:51am
| Where is my BAT i want to beat this DEAD HORSE > |
Posted By: Moderator
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 9:07am
With my compliments Fred.------------- ============================================================ The moderator at any given time may be the forum owner, or a trusted assistant. Your cooperation is appreciated. Thank You |
Posted By: Byron WC in SW Wi
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 9:22am
| Thanks for the empathy and enlightenment Fred. See ya. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 10:10am
| Just an FYI, AGCO's YTD sales have TANNKED (in NA)! YTD, the overall industry is up. AEM numbers confirm this. How's the dictators version of "hope and change" working out at AGCO? Ironic parallel to another "hope and change", seems like they are from the same mold. Wonder how soon they will figure out they miss Orange? |
Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 11:27am
Do you have a source you can link for your AEM numbers?
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Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 5:43pm
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http://www.mymachinery.com/Article.aspx?ID=156438 -
Here you go, focused on 4WD, Over 100HP Row Crop and combines (Farm Segment). All up YTD.
http://www.mymachinery.com/Article.aspx?ID=156438
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:04pm
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Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:31pm
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How can you make the claim that the overall industry is up? Your own data says: "Year-to-date sales are down for all segments, except four-wheel drive tractor sales and combine sales." The data is also still showing an industry wide drop over 2009 on wheeled tractors. (-1.2%) Doesn't sound like overall industry to me... You can't find the AGCO numbers for year to date yet. Q1 is not finished so there will be nothing officially reported yet. The only thing you have is Q4 of 2009 or all of 2009, and that can't be compared to 2010 data presented and mean anything. When the official Q1 reports are out with the sales reports then we will have something.
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Posted By: Stanley
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 6:39pm
| I would like to hear more about Norm's post regarding JD. |
Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 7:47pm
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Posted By: TomYaz
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 8:14pm
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If this is true:
"No manufacturer will tell you their specific numbers, "
How do you know this:?
"but it is a known fact that AGCO's internal numbers since the first of year have TAANNKED! "
Dont get me wrong, I bet AGCO numbers WILL tank, but Im not going to bite on heresay. The end of quarter numbers will tell the story. Should know by end of April.
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Posted By: steffensen
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 8:30pm
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Every segment makes a manufacturer money, but thanks for clarifying what your overall industry means.
What fact are you talking about for AGCO's internal numbers? I have not heard that the overall numbers have tanked since the first of the year. They did drop pretty good in Q4 of 2009, but I hadn't heard this new news yet. I am very interested to hear more. Can you provide me the link of where this is stated? If you have true UCC data from last year and this year it would be great if you post it also.
Sorry Tom...Typing at same time, had the same question, and agree that Q1 reports for company and sales will be the beginning of the 2010 story.
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Posted By: nowversatile
Date Posted: 27 Mar 2010 at 8:59pm
Not publically stated, heard generalizations from a number of dealers.
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