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Not AC but need engine help guys!!!!

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AJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Not AC but need engine help guys!!!!
    Posted: 26 Aug 2012 at 11:33pm
Ok guys, here's the scoop. This may be a little long but I'm desperate to figure this out. And since the engine I'm dealing with is a lot like these tractor engine thought I would try here. I am trying to resurrect a 49 studebaker champion with 33,000 original on it. Been sitting in a barn for 30 years not running. Well after rebuilding the carb, new plugs, new wires, new points and condenser, radiator fix, water pump rebuilt, took the head off because cylinder number 3 had 0 compression, fixed the valve that was stuck wide open. Adjusted the valves to where the are suppose to be and cleaned them thoroughly, new fuel pump and gas line, everything you could think of has been replaced, rebuilt, or fixed in one form or another. Now for the issue. It purrs like a kitten on steroids at idle and through the low rpms. When you go to rev it up or get into higher rpms it falls flat on its face. No power. Cuts out spudders spits coughs anything and everything but run right. Engine shakes back and forth while it does this. This thing has a lot more power than what its showing. Can't drive it any where past 20-25 mph. Has great low end torque but high end is so lame its embarrassing. I have a wedding in 12 days and I gotta get this thing running right. Anyone have anything?
Can't fix stupid
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Flint23 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flint23 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:36am
wild guess...vacuum leak or timing off a bit.. how's the compression now?
been there done that, not doing it again...
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Gerald J. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gerald J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 12:46am
Main jet in the carburetor is plugged. Or the fuel line in plugged so its starving for fuel. I've seen a tractor engine that would only idle for a minute then shut down and wouldn't run faster because the hidden screen in the fuel inlet adapter fitting was clogged with varnish. Wouldn't pass 60 psi air (all the pressure that was in my portable tank that day) and I've seen fuel lines clogged with varnish to give the same effect. And it could be the intake manifold gasket rotted.

Ignition timing could be stuck at idle, though that usually doesn't show up as rough running, retarded timing when it needs it to be advanced, just makes it low on power but very smooth.

Gerald J.
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AJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:31am
Checked timing and cleaned carb twice
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AJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:36am
Played with the timing. Advanced in manually. No change. Compression is around 100 on all cylinders. Manifold gasket is new.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike_426 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:07am
Is there a pcv valve under the valve cover? Had a similar problem on an old dump truck, was bad causing serious vacuum problem, good luck
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AJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:26am
There is a vent that comes out of one of the valve covers. This is a flat head engine.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:38am
A 1949 would not have PCV, would be a road draft tube.
Two possibilities that I would check.  Condensor (yes, I know you changed it, but they can be bad out of the box); and ignition coil.
Another might be restriction in exhaust.
For a more arcane reason, could the engine be moving enough in its mounts to lose its electrical ground or power connection? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AllisUpstate Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:45am
AJ,

I'd still go with fuel, even though you cleaned the carbs twice.  There might still be a bit of rust or blockage in one of the jet passageways, or even further back.  The fuel pump might have a partially ruptured diaphragm, giving it enough to idle on but not run.  Like others have said, on the electrical side, about the only thing remaining could be a seized up advance mechanism, but a timing light would reveal that fairly quickly.

Whatever you find out, please let everyone know. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve in NJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:02am
Something thats been sitting that long might have a mouse nest in the muffler or exhaust pipe somewhere and is blocking the exhaust from exiting at higher throttle. Had that happen years ago to a customer that had a 64 Chevy Nova. Sat for many years in a little ole lady's garage. He got it running, but it wouldn't go over a certain rpm. The engine would flatten out. (6 cylinder) Brought it to me to figure out. I found a mouse condo in the exhaust system. What tipped me off was the burnt seat cushion particals at the tailpipe! It also had this funny smell to it while it was running. It definately did not have a cat converter on it thats fir' sure! Wink   Hmmmmm...... Check the exhaust system. Confused
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AJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:07am
The car don't have an actual exhaust right now. It's about 3'of pipe right now. Exhaust was falling off.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 7:12am
Maybe you should just sell it to me and I can put that engine in my 48 M5 pickupApprove
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 8:01am
I can't do that. If I did I wouldn't be getting married then. Besides you wouldn't want to pay the price she would want.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mtanut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 9:30am
I would try gravity feeding gas to it and see how it runs. There is a possibility that the cam is wore enough that it isn't pumping enough gas. Other thing is check the condenser as mentioned and also pull the distributor and check to see if there is slop in the shaft. Good luck.
I have a 185 Allis, 6060 Allis, Model K gleaner, SMTA ferg 35, ferg 20 (paps first tractor, Allis B (wife's)John Deere 240 skid loader and a bunch of the usual farm stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 9:35am
Tried the gravity with the fuel. Took distributer out and went through it. Condenser was replaced
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:00am
Rebuilt the carb?   Sometimes a gasket can be upside down and block a critical orifice.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bob in Md. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:08am
 Hi  fuel pump is bad
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl in MD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 10:31am
Did you change the polarity of the ignition system?  It would have been positive ground, and if you switched the polarity of the battery to negative ground, it will make the spark so weak that it won't do much more than idle.  Don't ask me how I know this or how many hours it took to figure it out. 
A man's got to know his limitations.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave Richards (WV) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:06am
Steve, is that Cat converter used to eliminate the mice?????
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dick L Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:07am
That was the same flat head engine that I used in the race car I bulit in 1960. I had that thing apart so many times. Seemed about every other week I pulled the engine. Tried a couple of different crankshafts. I had the carburetor apart several times and for the life of me I cannot remember if it had an accelerator pump. Seems it should have.  Snappy little flat head.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:21am
Karl, it does have a "weak" spark at the points but how would than effect the way it runs at higher rpms?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 11:23am
I have a new distributer advance diaphragm being over nighted in for tomorrow for it to try that at least.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Brian Jasper co. Ia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 1:32pm
Have you actually checked fuel pressure? The way you describe it makes me think lack of fuel. Just for grins and giggles fab up a separate fuel tank and electric fuel pump and see what happens.
When you looked at the spark, what is it putting out to the plug? There will always be a tiny bit of arcing at the points.
One more thing to check is the wire to the points from the coil inside the dizzy. I have seen that wire break from being flexed by the vacuum advance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Karl in MD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 3:27pm
If the spark is weak when you work the points manually, it's not going to be strong enough to fire the plugs under compression.  at idle, a weak spark is okay, because the engine is not having to work, but when it's under more load, the plugs will misfire.  Check your polarity.  Is the system still 6 volt?  is it still positive ground?  If it's been switched to negative ground, you need to switch the wires on the coil, otherwise, you're trying to feed current to the points through the entire car frame, and fire the plugs from the side electrode.  It sounds weird, but an old mechanic showed me, and it does make a difference.
A man's got to know his limitations.

'51 WD, Roto-Baler,, A-C rake, '44 C, '42 B
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Duey (IA) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 4:01pm
If the battery is grounded to the frame, you need a ground strap from the engine to the frame so the spark can complete the circuit.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 4:30pm
Well the positive side of the battery goes to the engine. Negative goes to the starter. So what does that mean?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jlogli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 4:41pm

Not enough back pressure with exhaust pipe?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TramwayGuy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:53pm
If the cables are like you say, it is correctly postive grounded.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CTuckerNWIL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 5:54pm
If the positive side of the battery is hooked directly to the engine block, you should be fine. Then check the coil and see if the + side of it goes to the distributor. It should.
 Now if you don't have enough spark to jump 1/4 inch gap (at the plug) and still make a bright blue spark, you need to fix whatever is causing the weak spark. If you have replaced the condenser, it could still be the problem. New ones now days are pretty junky.
 You might have a problem with the coil. Make SURE it's grounded good to the block. Might be worth a try to replace that too, with the proper coil for whatever voltage you are running.
 Now, a new gas line, fuel pump and rebuilt carb won't do much good if you have blockage in the tank itself. Could be a bad gas cap not venting or you might have some crud in the tank that limits the amount of fuel getting to the carb.
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Lena 1935 WC12xxx, Willie 1951 CA6xx Dad bought new, 1954WD45 PS, 1960 D17 NF
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thad in AR. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Aug 2012 at 6:32pm
100 isn't good compression. Are you sure the other valves aren't sticking?
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