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DougG 
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 Topic: Deutz Allis 8000 series plans?
Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 7:58am |
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Seen yesterday an article on FB by a fella from Tractor Zoom that Deutz kept the 8000 series plans tooling etc to take to Germany and produce them then send back over here for sale for their big tractor? I know DA advertising in early years always had the 8000 in brochures, just curious if this was all true, interesting,,,
Edited by DougG - 02 Apr 2022 at 9:11am
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DSeries4
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 9:36am |
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I do not believe that. Deutz already had their own line of successful tractors. Why did they shutdown AC tractor production in December 1985? They didn't want AC tractors.
The only things Deutz wanted with the AC buyout were the combines and the dealer network.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DougG
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Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 12:17pm |
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Kinda what I thought but at the time he was saying Deutz didnt have anything that big for the US market - supposedly, idk ; at that time i was busy racing cars, drinking beers and chasing the ladies, kinda was away from the AC business
Edited by DougG - 02 Apr 2022 at 12:21pm
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Kcgrain
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Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 12:18pm |
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Thats complete BS according to Norm Swinford the blueprints were taken to the landfill, the molds were destroyed, and the machinery was disassembled and shipped to Mexico. The Mexico part I know is true because my uncle worked for a company that was taking it apart and preparing it for shipping
Edited by Kcgrain - 02 Apr 2022 at 12:19pm
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DougG
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Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 12:22pm |
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So what happened to it being shipped to Mexico?
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FREEDGUY
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Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 7:07pm |
 DSeries4 wrote:
I do not believe that. Deutz already had their own line of successful tractors. Why did they shutdown AC tractor production in December 1985? They didn't want AC tractors.
The only things Deutz wanted with the AC buyout were the combines and the dealer network. |
In hindsight, what happened to the "original" AC network that you mentioned??
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DSeries4
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Posted: 02 Apr 2022 at 8:39pm |
FREEDGUY wrote:
DSeries4 wrote:
I do not believe that. Deutz already had their own line of successful tractors. Why did they shutdown AC tractor production in December 1985? They didn't want AC tractors.
The only things Deutz wanted with the AC buyout were the combines and the dealer network. |
In hindsight, what happened to the "original" AC network that you mentioned?? |
Ask AGCO in the 1990s.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Kcgrain
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 2:09pm |
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I couldn't answer that, my guess is the machinery was sold to some manufacturer for their factories. There was an Allis Chalmers Mexico that built the L4 but doubt if they needed any of the machines West Allis had, they built tractors and the Combines were made in Independence
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DougG
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 2:23pm |
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Thanks for the response KC !
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BrianC
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 5:55pm |
Sad about Allis shutdown. What was the story with Fiat on the construction side? Did they continue making construction equipment in Allis factories for a long time? Is there a "Son of a HD-41" in production today?
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bigal121892
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Posted: 03 Apr 2022 at 6:23pm |
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I remember my dealer, telling me that Deutz, which owned 20% of Steiger, was going to have Steiger build the tractors, with Deutz engines in them. When TENNECO acquired the 80% of Steiger, that was the end of that idea. Deutz went looking for some one to make a tractor with their engine it. Came down to Deere or White. Deere had the better price, but White had the better warranty.
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VAfarmboy
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Posted: 20 Apr 2022 at 11:17pm |
I suspect that the 8000 series plans found their way to the John Deere Waterloo works. The first thing I thought when I saw John Deere's new 7000 series tractors was: "Gee, I have seen these tractors before but they were painted orange." 
Wouldn't be the first time that John Deere copied someone else's design. The 3300, 4400, 6600 and 7700 combines sure look like the Massey 300, 410, 510, and 740, minus the turret style unloading auger which I suspect was patented so Deere had to wait a few years to put them on the 20 series.
When Deere sued Kinze for copying the Max Emerge Kinze's lawyers proved that Deere had copied everything on those planters from someone else.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 21 Apr 2022 at 4:42am |
BrianC wrote:
Sad about Allis shutdown. What was the story with Fiat on the construction side? Did they continue making construction equipment in Allis factories for a long time? Is there a "Son of a HD-41" in production today?
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IIRR, the one lasting vestige of AC design, still being built today is the D grader... 
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DSeries4
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Posted: 21 Apr 2022 at 7:15pm |
VAfarmboy wrote:
I suspect that the 8000 series plans found their way to the John Deere Waterloo works. The first thing I thought when I saw John Deere's new 7000 series tractors was: "Gee, I have seen these tractors before but they were painted orange."
Wouldn't be the first time that John Deere copied someone else's design. The 3300, 4400, 6600 and 7700 combines sure look like the Massey 300, 410, 510, and 740, minus the turret style unloading auger which I suspect was patented so Deere had to wait a few years to put them on the 20 series.
When Deere sued Kinze for copying the Max Emerge Kinze's lawyers proved that Deere had copied everything on those planters from someone else.
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The gentleman who designed the AC 8000 cab went to JD after the buyout. That is why the 7000 JD tractors looked so similar. He was on the forum here for several years until he died a few years ago. Unfortunately his name escapes me. I only remember his handle "427435".
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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Mikez
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Posted: 21 Apr 2022 at 11:23pm |
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oh I remember seeing that handle
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injpumpEd
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Posted: 22 Apr 2022 at 7:35am |
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That was Mark, but I don't remember him going to Deere. I remember he worked at White as well as AC. He did provide some nice valuable info about the prototypes and such! I do miss reading his knowledgeable posts!
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210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Unit3
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Posted: 23 Apr 2022 at 11:42pm |
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I remember 427/435 laughed at me. I said when it comes to the grain carts, I liked the cab of the 7000 series over the 8000 series. The 7000s had the larger rear side window and no roof overhangs. It gave you far better visibility than 8000 series. He laughed, and said that when they designed the 7000 series, grain carts were still just toys. They didn’t plan back then for the carts we have today.
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AC7060IL
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Posted: 25 Apr 2022 at 6:47am |
Mark’s older (2015) AC post about cabs. Interesting read. He gives his AC work timelines & advancements. https://www.allischalmers.com/forum/427435_topic105893_page1.html
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