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Krazy Karl 
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 Topic: Converting to 12v what alternator to get
Posted: 22 Feb 2019 at 8:05pm |
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Got a c allis and a wd thinking of converting both to 12 volt. What ia a good alternator to get. Looking for ones that will fit without cutting up the tractor to make them fit. If you have part numbers that would be great. Reason for converting just something to do. Batteries are getting bad both need generator work and they both need tune ups any ways. And the c does alot of putting around
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DougS
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Posted: 22 Feb 2019 at 8:42pm |
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Get an inexpensive smaller alternator that is rated at 35 AMPS. That's all you'll need. Remember to change or disconnect the lights. If you have battery ignition you'll need to change the coil or add a ballast resistor. I'd go to a junkyard and see if you can find an old early 80's Japanese car.
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MACK
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Posted: 22 Feb 2019 at 9:24pm |
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Go with something common AMERICAN Made, Delco is common and simple. MACK
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 22 Feb 2019 at 10:26pm |
DELCO CS 130.......... standard on many Chevy / GM products from 1980- 2000 s
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 5:07am |
Delco 10si single wire. Cut the bottom of the alternator housing with a hacksaw, to line up the pulleys. bottom bracket, turn 180º, use all thread and washers to align to the WP pulley. There are thousands of delco 10si's out there... 
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 6:04am |
I 2nd Steve(ill) for the CS130 ! I've converted all 4 of my D-14s with them and zero problems. Got them all for free at scrap yard..just be sure to get the connector ! Up here NAPA wants $20+ for it ! I used airgun to unzip the pulley nuts, genny pulley fits alt perfect.If you build the brackets right, you can use the same fanbelt ! There are smaller alternators( Denso ?) but be sure to get TWO identical units so wiring is the same. Also on the CS-130, you can remove the 4 screws and rotate the end sections to 3-6-9-12 o'clock positions to get the connector to better line up.
Jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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WF owner
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 6:18am |
Read Steve's (Steve in NJ on this forum) info about 1 wire verses 3 wire alternators:
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BrianC
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 7:53am |
EDIT Update. I am talking about a 1948 C in this post.
I have a 3 wire Delco 10SI. I used the original generator brackets. I have a 2 groove pulley on it, which is longer. If I didn't do that, I would have had to make new brackets. I like my solution, the generator sits back more, I can see the fan pulley and stuff better. Down below I have a pipe tube spacer cut to length to make up for the difference between generator and alternator, and a long single bolt. The 10SI body is about 6" diameter, the 130cs is 5.2. My 10Si does clear the chicken roost steering arm. But not by much. I think the 130 would be a better choice.
1 wire or 3 wire. Oh brother, this can start a war. Some people say the one wire needs to spin too fast to turn on, and it's always on regulator will drain you battery. I don't know. Other say those problems were 1980's tech and is no longer the case. I don't know. If the new one wire alternators are OK, someone should step up and state which model/ order number and vendor is the one to get,for tractors, in both 10si and 130cs sizes.
I installed new 12v headlights. Put a 12v bulb in the rear (and rare) taiiight. Dumped the ammeter for a voltmeter. i replaced the magneto kill switch with a toggle kill switch. One set of contacts ground/unground the magneto. The other set of contacts send power to the alternator regulator, with a resistor to replace the idiot light they normally used on a car with alternator. The battery is the Duralast 26RDL. This is low enough so the battery won't short out on the battery box cover. But I did glue a sheet of rubber to bottom of the cover. All installed 2012 with no problems yet.
Thinking it all over, a one wire 130CS would be choice if I had to do it over.
Edited by BrianC - 24 Feb 2019 at 1:24pm
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 8:29am |
For the "C" model, the Denso or the Delco "CS" series will fit the application better because of the steering drag link. An "SI" series Delco would fit the WD without to much trouble providing you either modify the original Gennie bracket or fab your own frame mount bracket. We offer Alternator brackets for either machine if you don't want to fab your own or ruin the OEM bracket. We also offer complete 12V conversion kits which gives you everything you need to do the deed except ambition. The bracket is optional.
As for the one wire, some folks here have success using a one wire. Some use larger pulleys, some use the newer style one wires (they still draw when sitting just so ya know) and some modify the cases like mentioned above. I always tell our customer's to use a three wire design. Its not that much harder (two wires more) and whatever you're using up front for the charging chores will start to charge right around 400-450 rpm. Right where the engine normally idles and there's no extra revving of the engine to get the one wire version to charge. Its not that tough really. Your call there on what you decide. My suggestion is if you go with a one wire and the Tractor sits alot before you get around to use it for certain tasks, remove the ground cable while it sits, cause' it'll be dead by the time you get ready to use it..... If you need help or information, as WF owner mentioned, you can visit our website and do some reading before you make your decision. I've been designing wiring systems, wiring vehicles, and rebuilding electrical components for 50 years now. Glad to help you out if you have any questions.... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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DSeries4
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 10:21am |
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Get the generators rebuilt and voltage regulators checked out and you will have no need to figure out how to hang an ugly alternator off the side of the engine. They have worked for the last 60+ years.
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'49 G, '54 WD45, '55 CA, '56 WD45D, '57 WD45, '58 D14, '59 D14, '60 D14, '61 D15D, '66 D15II, '66 D21II, '67 D17IV, '67 D17IVD, '67 190XTD, '73 620, '76 185, '77 175, '84 8030, '85 6080
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DennisA (IL)
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 4:57pm |
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I never understood why one would want to convert to an alternator. Haven’t had any problems with a generator on my 8 tractors in over 20 years. 5 tractors use 6 volt system, 4 on 12 volt system. The newest tractor which would be tractor #9 needs the alternator replaced, It’s a 7045.
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Thanks & God Bless
Dennis
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 5:14pm |
some reasons to convert to 12 are
1)easy to jump start ,cause everything is 12 these days.. Imagine the fun calling AAA for a 6 volt boost !!
2) cheap addon lights...lots(1,000s) of 12 volt LEDS ,not too many 6 volts though
3) easy to run winch or water pump(weed sprayer). most (all) are 12 volt.
4) easy to jump start neighbours car cause your tractor's now 12 volts
5) simple to add a radio....heater...A/C....charger cell, etc.
6) quicker to recharge the battery. The 'big' benefit for me cause most of my uses are short time events. Gennys like all day to fillup the battery with new electrons.
7) usually forces you to replace 100% of the 1/2 centurey old, PO bodged wiring, that was causing you no end of grief......
yes, the 60 year old genny IF properly rebuilt and used as designd will work fine but.... we don't do things the way granpa did !
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DiyDave
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 5:44pm |
 jaybmiller wrote:
some reasons to convert to 12 are
1)easy to jump start ,cause everything is 12 these days.. Imagine the fun calling AAA for a 6 volt boost !!
2) cheap addon lights...lots(1,000s) of 12 volt LEDS ,not too many 6 volts though
3) easy to run winch or water pump(weed sprayer). most (all) are 12 volt.
4) easy to jump start neighbours car cause your tractor's now 12 volts
5) simple to add a radio....heater...A/C....charger cell, etc.
6) quicker to recharge the battery. The 'big' benefit for me cause most of my uses are short time events. Gennys like all day to fillup the battery with new electrons.
7) usually forces you to replace 100% of the 1/2 centurey old, PO bodged wiring, that was causing you no end of grief......
yes, the 60 year old genny IF properly rebuilt and used as designd will work fine but.... we don't do things the way granpa did !
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8) alternators from cars are free or cheap.
9) 12 V batteries are cheap or free.
10) not many rebuilders out there any more, easier to get a new or free alternator.
11) building brackets, sizing pulleys adjusting and re-wiring keeps the mind active and young!
Edited by DiyDave - 23 Feb 2019 at 5:46pm
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Krazy Karl
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 6:18pm |
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Thanks for the info. Reason #12 when walk into the father in-law machine shed and smell rotten eggs because he was being helpful and charging up the battery after winter. And has charger on 12 volts and hooked up backwards.
That and like mentioned earlier keep mind busy
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BrianC
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 7:01pm |
I agree that my alternator looks odd on the tractor. But it functions great. And now I learn that the one wire alternators still have their quirks. I recently re-wired my Ford 3000 and kept the generator and regulator. Works fine.
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 7:15pm |
I've been preachin' for years. To each his own. I build anything our customer's want. Some folks like the OEM look, and some don't care if it doesn't look correct. They just want it reliable.... Steve@B&B
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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steve(ill)
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Posted: 23 Feb 2019 at 10:20pm |
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when you go from 6 v to 12 v, you DOUBLE the voltage, when cuts the AMPS in half to get the same power ( for starter, etc)... less amps means smaller wires can work.
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Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 10:27am |
The generator's regulation scheme revolved around a solenoid coil pulling in a contact that cycled the field current out at a fairly high rate. Couple this with the generator's generally low output, and long running hours, and a basically nonexistant (by later standards) electrical load it was sufficient. When used in a day-to-day operation, and it, and the battery, were well maintained, it was a fairly dependable solution.
Times have changed in just about every respect. Antique tractors don't get run every day, they don't get battery water checked every week... they don't as rigorously get run at working speeds, and that regulator doesn't get checked often enough.
Realize that a generator, is just an alternator with a commutator. An alternator doesn't need a commutator, it has slip rings and DIODES. Slip rings don't need the kind of attention that a commutator does... and diodes don't 'wear out'.
Oh... and alternators' integral electronic regulator have incredibly tight control in comparison to a mechanical contact unit. If you want a battery to last, you need to keep the volt-per-cell charging in appropriate control, regardless of engine speed and running time. Alternators do that really well. Not to say that a mechanical unit CAN'T, but it needs a whole lot more human attention, and very regular exercise, to do so.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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HoughMade
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Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 10:50am |
DSeries4 wrote:
Get the generators rebuilt and voltage regulators checked out and you will have no need to figure out how to hang an ugly alternator off the side of the engine. They have worked for the last 60+ years.
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And don’t get me started about ditching 6 volts and magnetos instead of finding out what’s wrong and fixing it.
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1951 B
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DennisA (IL)
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Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 10:58am |
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I sure didn’t mean to ruffle any feathers. I just haven’t had issues with the old system. We used a WD that had been converted to 12 volt for planting. The planter was a four row air champ. The generator keep up with the blower, monitor, lights and battery. As far as usage, all my tractors have a use on the farm. They may sit in the winter but spring - fall they in use. I don’t have battery issues and so far the oldest battery in use is a 6 volt which was purchased new in 1998. Like Steve said “to each his own”.
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Thanks & God Bless
Dennis
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DaveKamp
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Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 11:12am |
HoughMade wrote:
DSeries4 wrote:
Get the generators rebuilt and voltage regulators checked out and you will have no need to figure out how to hang an ugly alternator off the side of the engine. They have worked for the last 60+ years.
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And don’t get me started about ditching 6 volts and magnetos instead of finding out what’s wrong and fixing it. |
I prefer to keep original things original, and I LOVE a good magneto... in a constant-speed, hand-start application.
The reason why these components have been changed in the past, is due to utilitarian issues... and it's driven solely by any one, or combination of the following:
1) Parts are more IMMEDIATELY available in a time of IMMEDIATE need... 2) A guy can't make it work, but he can make something ELSE work... 3) What it was able to do in the past, is not sufficient for what it's being asked to do today, without some adaptation or enhancement.
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Ten Amendments, Ten Commandments, and one Golden Rule solve most every problem. Citrus hand-cleaner with Pumice does the rest.
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DiyDave
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Posted: 24 Feb 2019 at 5:51pm |
For me its simple economics, a rebuilt alternator can be had for 25-50 bucks less than rebuilding a genny, + 40 bucks fer a regulator... I still keep the originals, and don't deface the brackets, in case someone wants to take it back to original. Never adapt the tractor to the alt, adapt the alt to the tractor...
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Steve in NJ
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Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 7:52am |
Dave makes a good point. If you purchase one of my slick Alternator Bracket Kits for a particular model Tractor, then you don't have to modify any OEM piece. I designed my brackets to bolt in the OEM holes. Nothin' ta' drill. Make the Alt fit the machine like Dave says....
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39'RC, 43'WC, 48'B, 49'G, 50'WF, 65 Big 10, 67'B-110, 75'716H, 2-620's, & a Motorhead wife
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john(MI)
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Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 10:10am |
My starter was never changed on my D14 by the PO when he went to 12v. Every time I would start it, it would grind on the ring gear. I finally took my starter to the stater store and had the guy convert it to 12v. Works great now. The ballast resistor I got was for a very old, olds, or Buick. I went to a real auto parts store and the guy new exactly what I needed.
As stated previously, it sure is more convenient having everything 12v. If you are restoring to make a, "correct police", original tractor, you may prefer the genny, but if it's just a work tractor, who cares!?!?
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 10:18am |
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re: grinding ringgear. I've had 4 D-14s, just 3 now...finally replaced RG On 'Troy' after 4-5 years of grinding. Thing is a 4 stroke engine ALWAYS stops at 1 of 2 places( nature of the beast it in't random like we'd think)..so when starting those 2 places get 'chewed'. The 'economical' solution is to heat the gear, rotate about 2 o'clocks, put back on. Just be SURE it's in the correct place. I had neighbour install new gear( from India). Also put new starter gear on as same time.
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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DiyDave
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Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 5:38pm |
john(MI) wrote:
My starter was never changed on my D14 by the PO when he went to 12v. Every time I would start it, it would grind on the ring gear. I finally took my starter to the stater store and had the guy convert it to 12v. Works great now. The ballast resistor I got was for a very old, olds, or Buick. I went to a real auto parts store and the guy new exactly what I needed.
As stated previously, it sure is more convenient having everything 12v. If you are restoring to make a, "correct police", original tractor, you may prefer the genny, but if it's just a work tractor, who cares!?!?
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Don't know what your starter guy did to your starter, but a 6 volt starter works just fine, rewired to 12 V...
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 25 Feb 2019 at 5:51pm |
the 'starter guy' probably replaced the 6v field coils with 12v ones however..... there is another difference to a 12V D-14 vs a 6V D-14. the 12 v D-14 has a different ring gear AND bendix gear !! I have 2 6v -14s and one official 12 v D-14. Both 6v D-14s start fine on 12v. jay
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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fourthgeneration
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Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 8:53pm |
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I don’t think the CS130 has a swinging brush holder. The only reason not to use a CS is in dusty environment.
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jaybmiller
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Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 8:56pm |
gee all the dust I go through, the radiator collects it !! 
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3 D-14s,A-C forklift, B-112
Kubota BX23S lil' TOOT( The Other Orange Tractor)
Never burn your bridges, unless you can walk on water
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fourthgeneration
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Posted: 01 Mar 2019 at 9:46pm |
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A 10SI is a good choice. I guess it depends on what you do with your tractor. If you still work it in dusty environments regularly then I probably would stick to an SI. They have swinging brush holders and are cheap. Just blow them out once and a while. Dad always had one wire low turn on one wire regulators. I have converted about everything back to 3 wire. This is my opinion which won’t mean anything to you but one wires suck. There is no reason not to run a wire to your ignition power and a sensing wire. Now if you needed a 140 amp alternator, there is a Nippondeso that came on the 4055 Deere’s that is really good. Or a Neihoff.
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