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Case 580b?(not orange but?)

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:21am
If its not selling too fast, then offer even less and see if he takes it..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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SteveM C/IL View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jan 2022 at 8:25am
You are asking for trouble. If you can't afford a good one to start with you can't afford this one either. More than likely you will put as much money in this one to make it whole and all the headaches getting it there. Remember what Dirty Harry said....Do you feel lucky?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 4:56pm
Update on this, I passed on that one that had transmission issues and found another 580b diesel that has no transmission issues but higher hours (8900 showing) My only concern with this one is one of the four cylinders has oil or at least what looks like oil spurting out from the exhaust manifold? How can I diagnose what seems to be the issue? It seems to start run drive and operate normal. Thanks Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:06pm
Oil or Fuel?  what is the color of the smoke coming out the exhaust?  Does it run on all 4 cylinders?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:42pm
It looks like oil but from what I've read it's hard to decipher oil from fuel? ( It looks like motor oil to me) looks to me like white smoke- not really terrible...)
How can I tell for sure if it's running on all 4 cylinder s?

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 26 Jan 2022 at 5:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 5:57pm
OMG   Run Forrest Run     NO. THE OTHER WAY!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 7:35pm
I'm looking for help not criticism please. I do not own any diesels so I don't know what to look for and I'm hoping to gain some info on a 4-cylinder diesel that's from the mid 70s, thanks Matt

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 26 Jan 2022 at 7:41pm
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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jan 2022 at 9:08pm
normally excess fuel burns BLACK... excess oil burns GREY.... burning antifreeze is WHITE..... its hard to tell oil from water on some ... SMELL what it is.... look at exhaust pipe for water or BURNT OIL.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:06am
If you can't tell from the sound of the engine if it is missing or not then I would just check the temperature of each runner on the exhaust manifold beside the head. one, or more, will not be the same temperature like 75 degrees colder or something like a big number.  Could be the head gasket, but i doubt it would start that good if the head gasket is leaking.  A harbor freight laser temperature finder would set you up pretty cheap to check it out.  An easy engine to overhaul if that is all that wrong with it.  Best way to know what is leaking is to put it on your finger and smell or taste it  oil well its slippery and smells like oil, anti freeze tastes sweet and is more tacky and less slippery than oil.
You are looking at machines that require a substantial amount of work, and will cost you money for parts.  You might want to look at something that nots close to its death bed, but costs a little more.  The problems that you are asking about are only the ones you are seeing, rest assured there are more on machines in the conditions you describe. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:19am
I can tell whether a gasoline engine is missing but an older 4 cylinder diesel like this is noisy to begin with when running. I do have a laser temperature gauge I can check that with and I appreciate the info. To me it almost sounded like it had a backfiring pop but not the entire engine like on a gaser it almost sounded like three cylinders were running normal and one was kind of making a different bang when it came up and maybe it's the one that has dark fluid coming out of the manifold because the injector is not working correctly and all it is is that? I'm going to have a experienced diesel mechanic look at it when I go back.(sounds like from what one of you guys said is that if it's black like it looks like but it's probably just unburnt diesel) Thanks for the info fellas

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 27 Jan 2022 at 5:20am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 5:44am
Amos, What do you mean check the "runner" next to the exhaust manifold?
They did have to jumper on the starter because the start switch does not work and also gave it a small shot of starter fluid to get it to fire. It's been sitting outside and it's very cold here in Northeast Ohio pretty much everyone that I've gone to look at has had to use starter fluid to get to fire and run. I don't know if the these symptoms could mean that head gasket is bad and that's all it is?

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 27 Jan 2022 at 5:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 11:53am
Not familiar with the engine in the Case but some diesel are prone to slobber fuel and carbon from running at idle and low temperature. So in some cases slobber may not be deal killer, but it sure could be. 

The temp of the exhaust of each cylinder should give good induction of a dead cylinder. 

Another way to tell by listing is to loosen a fuel injector line. Do them all one at a time it should sound the same on any 3 of 4. But sound doesn't change on one you know it is dead.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveM C/IL Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by Hunt4Allis Hunt4Allis wrote:

Amos, What do you mean check the "runner" next to the exhaust manifold?
They did have to jumper on the starter because the start switch does not work and also gave it a small shot of starter fluid to get it to fire. It's been sitting outside and it's very cold here in Northeast Ohio pretty much everyone that I've gone to look at has had to use starter fluid to get to fire and run. I don't know if the these symptoms could mean that head gasket is bad and that's all it is?
The manifold has a runner from the head to it. He's saying to check the runner as it exits the head....and there are few older mechanical diesels that will start cold without some "help". I was thinking the 580B the TWP had,had a manifold heater.. NEVER use one of those along with ether. 


Edited by SteveM C/IL - 27 Jan 2022 at 2:03pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 4:59pm
Yes, it is not the best starting engine when it gets below freezing.  I had mine plugged in yesterday morning for three hours and it started on the second revolution...without the block heater definitely she would have taken a couple squirts of ether to get it up and running.  If there is fuel slobbering from the exhaust, called wet lapping, on that engine there is definitely a problem with it, major problem.  it is really a good running super efficient engine.  Oh nd it was 5 degrees  F yesterday when i started mine up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jan 2022 at 9:15pm
This is where I get lost because one person will say it can slobber some at low idle speed at very cold temperatures (which is when it was doing it. ) And then another person will say it's definitely a very bad sign on that motor. I know there's no way to diagnose exactly what's going on without tearing it apart but I did talk to a diesel mechanic on it today and he seemed to think that he leaned more toward it's been sitting a little while and it was very cold so it's probably either oil coming past the ring on the piston on that cylinder or a faulty injector. I'm going to go look at it again Saturday after it's been in their building warmed up for a day to somewhat normal temperatures like 65 or 70. I'm going to take my laser temperature and May crack open one of the nuts on the injectors. The diesel mechanic that I talked to today on it seemed to think that it may only do it at low idle when it's very cold outside. He thought that it would clear up just by running it and operating it some since it's been sitting a while and so cold.After it warmed up it seemed to stop doing it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Amos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jan 2022 at 7:10am
Like i said earlier, I have put 6000 hrs on mine.  It has never done what you are describing, nor has it ever showed any sign wet lapping.  At 6300 hrs from new it did break a compression ring which split the piston lands on that cylinder, had a ton of blowby and would miss at idle but no slobbering, I rebuilt the engine completely then and its been great ever since.

it is hard to diagnose an engine issue over the phone, even harder over a forum like this and as these girls become senior ladies, well anything can happen to them!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ray54 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jan 2022 at 12:22pm
Hunt sorry I got you confused, ws meaning talk to the mechanic. Many old Cat crawlers slobber, with a less than perfect pony motor you tend to let them sit and idle. They can make big mess, put it work all is well again.

But since Amos has real experience with that engine, I sure would listen to him.

To far away Wink  but have JD 2010 industrial backhoe I would give away. But if you do a bit of looking you would run away from that JD engine.  A friend got a call from a widow get this backhoe out of the way. He aired tires saw it had fuel, put a battery in, started drove onto tilt bed tailor. He has hoe asked if I wanted it, my mistake, I said yes. Son and SIL played with controls all worked shut it off. Looked at dip stick milkshake. Drained it looked in radiator empty.  Pour a gal of water in, soon it is pouring out of the still open pan.  So hear it sits. The friend and I have experience the the 6 cylinder version of this engine in a JD combine, we have had enough. 

Wink But a real, run when parked hoe sitting here. Evil Smile


Edited by Ray54 - 15 Feb 2022 at 2:21pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 8:26am
Brought a 1972 580 b home! Post pictures later... It needs new rings as it does smoke a bit but really strong otherwise.
It's a wet sleeve 188 d diesel motor .
How far should I tear it down to replace rings/ sleeve s? Thanks Matt


Edited by Hunt4Allis - 15 Feb 2022 at 8:30am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 2:34pm
If I get a compression tester is there a specific one that is better for diesel motors and would that be the best first step to see why it's smoking? I don't want to just keep running it and destroy the motor. Thanks Matt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 3:05pm
Harbor freight has an inexpensive diesel compression tester set, it's their bigger one. It has an adapter for pencil injectors. Seems like that larger kit is about 100-150 bucks. It may just need a fuel system tune up. If it starts when cold, like above 50*, and doesn't drink oil, I'd run it. If it needs ether to start at 70*, and does use oil, then it would definitely need overhauled. Poor pump condition and poor injectors can make it smoke grey/white, it will burn your nose hairs. I like to see at least 300 PSI cranking compression on a diesel, spec may be 350 or even 400. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dave76 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 5:24pm
Hunt, that is a nice looking unit looks like you found a pretty good one. Ed gave you real good advice.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 6:45pm
It seems to start really easy when they delivered it which was mid-40s with no ether. I feel like if I did a compression test it would give me an idea of what condition the rings are in but to do that I would need to remove the injectors correct? This is my first diesel motor so I'm learning as I go. And your trick I will look into doing a tune-up on it first it sounds like. I've also heard that running seafoam through it as a cleaning that it can do a lot for cleaning the injectors?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 7:36pm
You remove the injectors to test compression. Sometimes the pencil injectors can be tough to get out and you ruin them doing so. While they are out, have a local shop test them and service for you if you have a good shop in your area. A diesel tune up consists of setting the rockers, servicing the injectors, and servicing the injection pump. If it started without ether at 40*, I don't think I'd worry about the rings being tired. Once you open pandora's box by pulling the head, you may find it's hard to decide where to stop. Just keep the box closed as long as possible lol!
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 9:07pm
Okay, I'm grateful for the info
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Feb 2022 at 9:21pm
The reason I ask about checking the rings is because to get it to start when I first went and looked at it they put a shot of ether into it and it was slobbering something out the exhaust manifold ?which at the time I thought was oil possibly coming around the rings because of how cold the motor was (it was 5°) it doesn't seem to slobber when it's warmer like that at all which is what led me to believe the rings and sleeves possibly needed replaced but I will start with a tune-up,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 5:15am
The other issue I have is the front tires need replaced and they are marked 9.00-16. My manual for this says front tires should be 11 l-16? How do I make sure that 11 l-16 will mount on my rims that are on the tractor? The rims from the manual say they're 8 in or 8 1/2 so I would think an 11-in wide tire would mount on it if that's what rim I have.
Since they are 9-in white tires and not 11 like the manual says someone probably changed these to 9 somewhere along the way but I want to make sure of my rim width before I buy new tires and also I'm asking just to make sure that I'm looking at the manual correctly? Thanks Matt

Edited by Hunt4Allis - 16 Feb 2022 at 5:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 8:08am
The slobbering may be poor injectors. When fuel oozes out the exhaust it looks like oil, but it's likely fuel. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farmboy520 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 8:21am
Yes you're looking at the manual correctly. You can measure the rims on the outside while the tires are still on. Measure the best you can from each side to the center and add the two measurements together.
On the farm: Agco Allis 9695, 7060, 7010, R66, Farmall H, and Farmall F20 (Great Grandpa's)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunt4Allis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 8:34am
The tires on it say 9.00-16
All tires that are new say 11-16 but actually measure 9" wide at tread so as long as my rims that are on it are 8" wide I'll look at getting what manual calls out being a 11-16.
Ok I'm going to do a gradual fluid change on entire thing( 1 system a weekend till all done and I may start by running some seafoam through with new fuel to help clean injectors possibly) reason I thought it may need new rings was only time it slobbered was 5-10f. degree's so I thought being so cold being stored outside and not ran for a couple weeks that the rings tightened up on piston so much it was blowing oil by the rings until it warms up... Maybe being cold affects the combustion of fuel somehow and slobbers only when cold that I have seen( they parked it inside(70°f overnight after my initial looking at per my request to see if it would start without ether and not slobber out exhaust manifold and it started perfectly with no ether and didn't slobber one bit)
A bunch of new filters/ fluid is what I'm going to start with and run some seafoam in diesel fuel for a bit and I'll go from there to get a tune-up! Thanks fellas!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote injpumpEd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Feb 2022 at 9:18am
Older fuel in the tank can make it slobber, combined with the cold. Fuel loses the aromatics over time, thus losing cetane rating, or it's ability to ignite. Fresh fuel and take it out and work it may clean it up a lot. 
210 "too hot to farm" puller, part of the "insane pumpkin posse". Owner of Guenther Heritage Diesel, specializing in fuel injection systems on heritage era tractors. stock rebuilds to all out pullers!
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