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Brake Pins 😮‍💨

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INV3RSE View Drop Down
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Joined: 23 Apr 2022
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    Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 10:42am
Rightyho

I cant get my break pins out of the ED40. One side had rusted so bad the shoes lifted out leaving the rust bonded to the pin!

The pin wont shift, I’ve made a pin puller using a threaded bar but it still won’t budge, it’s just flattening the bar threads.

What are my options? I’ve got new parts coming so want the old out asap, trouble is, I’m struggling to get them out 😞.

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steve(ill) View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 11:14am
I have had good luck with HEAT / PENETRANT / then IMPACT HAMMER .... You can hit it with the IMPACT more in 1 minute, than you can swing a 5 pound hammer all day long.

I assume you can get to the BACK SIDE  ?  If not, you might drill thru the housing on the back side for access to the pin.

Im not recommending this one... just showing you what to use.




Edited by steve(ill) - 23 Jun 2022 at 11:20am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 11:15am
Some have cut the pin ( where the shoe sets) with a cutoff wheel, then pound each remaining piece out individually.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garden_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 12:50pm
Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Some have cut the pin ( where the shoe sets) with a cutoff wheel, then pound each remaining piece out individually.


Is it possible to get to the brake pins in the WD with a cutoff wheel (either a grinder or a dremel), or do you need a torch to get up in there?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by garden_guy garden_guy wrote:

Originally posted by steve(ill) steve(ill) wrote:

Some have cut the pin ( where the shoe sets) with a cutoff wheel, then pound each remaining piece out individually.


Is it possible to get to the brake pins in the WD with a cutoff wheel (either a grinder or a dremel), or do you need a torch to get up in there?

I've used a sawzall.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 4:07pm
I can see the pin by looking up underneath, there’s a round hole in the tractor casing that allows you to view .

I think I might have to cut it somehow. Just a bit worried once it’s cut i will then have two stick pieces rather that one! 😂

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gary Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 4:20pm

Any one know for sure what the Brake set-up is for the British ED-40.

Is it similar to a WD, a CA, or a D-14 ?

G
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 9:17pm
I got one side out in my WD45. The other side I cut with a torch up thru the hole and pounded the pin in then cut again and drove it in more til it fell out. I have no idea what the accessibility is on the ED40.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dirt Farmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jun 2022 at 10:44pm
Could you weld a short piece of steel to the outside of the pin. That would create heat throughout the pin, then let it cool and use that as an anchor point to use an air chisel on to drive it out. Once you start using an air chisel for tasks like this you'll wonder how you have gotten by in the past. Mine gets used nearly everytime I'm changing bearings on equipment or cutting rounded off bolts. Good luck and let us know how it turns out
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2022 at 4:02am
I think its the same set up as the WD-45. Except the British one has a thread in the centre of the pin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2022 at 1:52pm
Will one of these torches be good enough to heat the pin?

https://www.toolstation.com/vortex-map-torch-pack/p71324

Thanks for all the help guys appreciate it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DiyDave Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2022 at 5:36pm
Originally posted by INV3RSE INV3RSE wrote:

Will one of these torches be good enough to heat the pin?

https://www.toolstation.com/vortex-map-torch-pack/p71324

Thanks for all the help guys appreciate it.

I have one of these, pricey ($400) but worth it.  If I were in your position, I'd call around to a few local muffler, or auto shops, and ask if they would be willing to heat your pins for you, if they have a bolt buster tool, or one like it...Wink


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 6:17am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 6:22am
That picture is from the operators manual. The Agco parts book online shows a 3d picture of the parts. I can't tell how, but it looks like it boils down to getting that lower pin removed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 6:46am
From the parts books. Still can't see how to pull the pin. I wouldn't cut anything untill your new parts arrive. A google search for Ed40 brake job didn't find anything. No good pictures of the axle housing. So I thought this thread could use the images. I saw an ED40 once.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 9:36am
Yeah that is the set up. The inside of the pin is threaded. I’ve screwed in a threaded bar put some box steel around it with washers on the end and a nut, basically to make a puller to pull it out. The puller would work if the pin wasn’t stuck/seized!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 9:43am
can you get to the BACKSIDE of the pin ?  blind hole ?  Can you drill into the housing and see the BACKSIDE ?

propane or MAPP torch should be able to get the pin close to RED... at least DULL RED.. let it soak into the rust and spray with penetrant.


Edited by steve(ill) - 25 Jun 2022 at 9:48am
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 10:28am
Confirm the pin in question is item #7.
The pin was internally threaded, perhaps for a puller? Sometimes an impact puller works better than threaded puller. That allows you to pull-tap it out.
What size (diameter) is the pin, what size is the threaded rod/bolt you are pulling with?
How long is the pin?
I assume you can see the end of the pin, is that on the inside closer towards the center of tractor, or the outside closer to the wheel. So what direction are you currently pulling from?
Is the hole in the housing a through hole, can you pull or push from either side?
If yes, I would use penetrating oil and tap it some to the left, some to the right.
However Allis loved their blind brake pin holes, so what are the odds.

What do you suppose retains the pin in place? My C has internal clips.
Item #7 picture looks as if it has grooves for retaining clips. If so they need to be removed first.

new info- the parts book lists item #8, set screw 3/8NCx3/4 (not illustrated, retains item #7).  So where is that? Regardless, need to remove it.


If that stuck you need that torch, a few heat and cool and penetrating oil cycles will do the trick. I don't think there are any bearings or seals you need to worry about cooking.

If you could post a few pictures that would help.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 1:13pm
Yeah the pin is #7 I have added a couple pictures, as you can see one pin is a lot worse than the other.

I can see one end of the pin threaded internally ( that the puller goes on ) then it goes through the tractor casing and through the eyes on the shoes then back in to the casing. The end of the pin is not visible but there is a hole you can see up through.

I think a MAP tortch is a good idea.

I was thinking of putting the sds drill up through the hole to ratttle it a bit

I
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 1:13pm
Yes there was 2 grub screws that retained the pins, I have been able to remove them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 1:21pm
YEA.... that is one NASTY looking pin.... Needle gun ... heat... penetrant...air hammer... still might have to cut in half and pound out from both ends..
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 1:39pm
Unfortunately it’s only possible to get to it from one end and up the middle.

One pin is proper nasty, other isn’t to bad..bad but not as bad 😂

I get pressure on the puller and see what heat can do, will get a MAP torch tomorrow. Can heat a cool a couple times a day until it budges.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BrianC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 5:07pm
I see what looks like a "CA like" auxiliary clutch. Does it work?
The pin that is really nasty, is the battery placed above that one?
Surprised you were able to get the 3/8 grub screws out, however I
don't know where they are located.
I could see using my needle scaler, that rust is flakey.
I have welder and oxy-acy torch. No experience with the map gas.


I assume you found good shoes,pins and items 14?

keep us posted.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ed (Ont) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Jun 2022 at 9:42pm
You are probably going to need oxygen acetylene torch for that job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2022 at 3:42am
Yes it’s a hand clutch, it next to the operators seat on the left side. The grub screws came out quite easily, they were right inside the casing tho so went trust at all, they came out silver looking like new!

Not the battery, the battery is just behind the block under the left side of the hood.

Yeah I have new shoes and pins ready to go in so being destructive is a option, I’m just worried if I cut them they will still be stuck just in shorter sections 😂
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve(ill) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 26 Jun 2022 at 9:23am
If you cut out the center section, you have to be able to get to the BACKS SIDE to get the piece in the blind hole.... as said before, sometimes you can DRILL a hole from the back to get access, if the hole was not thru.......... On the B/C tractors, the hole was sometimes BLIND.. sometimes you could see where the drill point started to come thru.. I have drilled out several so i could IMPACT HAMMER from the backside.
Like them all, but love the "B"s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corbinstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2022 at 7:26am
What I would do, is clean that thing up in the center as best I could, weld a puller on the outside, heat up the area around the pin, seal up the inspection hole, and dump in some penetrating oil. let it sit for a day and start banging on the puller. 

Go back with a stainless pin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WF owner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 2022 at 7:35am
Stainless pins would be nice, if they are available, but the originals have lasted over 50 years. Chances are good they will never be pulled again. 

I always put a little anti-seize (the messiest thing available) on the new pins, just in case I have to take them apart again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote corbinstein Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2022 at 6:32am
made my own stainless pins on the lathe. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote INV3RSE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jun 2022 at 4:54pm
I will certainly coat the new pins in anti seize! Judging by the state of the one’s coming out I doubt the new ones will need to come out for 50 - 60 years!

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