B Oil Filter Experiment

steve(ill) wrote: why are you trying to modify the filter, change orifices and redesign the system ?  WIX tried that and failed... for the past 70 YEARS you could buy a FRAM or BALDWIN or others that was built to FACTORY SPEC and works fine......... If you want to buy a 15 year old CRAP Wix filter, change the orifice and redesign the AC oil system, that's fine... but WHY ??? I would guess 999 out of 1000 people don't care to do that.  Could be done by anyone, but WHY BOTHER......... What they had for 70 years WORKS.

It works and at the time it was good enough. It isn't worth changing it today based on a cost/benefit comparison. Had they used a filtration system similar to what is used today the engine would have gone many more hours time between overhaul. The only bypass systems I've seen on modern engines are the add-on types where a small portion of oil is taken and passed through a super filter. Most of the oil goes through a regular full flow filter.

steve(ill) wrote: why are you trying to modify the filter, change orifices and redesign the system ?  WIX tried that and failed... for the past 70 YEARS you could buy a FRAM or BALDWIN or others that was built to FACTORY SPEC and works fine......... If you want to buy a 15 year old CRAP Wix filter, change the orifice and redesign the AC oil system, that's fine... but WHY ??? I would guess 999 out of 1000 people don't care to do that.  Could be done by anyone, but WHY BOTHER......... What they had for 70 years WORKS.

Edited by Tcmtech - 09 Sep 2016 at 5:31pm

Well wasn't the main subject of this thread the how and why some filters give it too low of oil pressure?    

He just doesn't understand plain English Steve. Pressure increase in this system will NOT help with lubing the engine,PERIOD. Opening a hole in the external oil line, like what happens when you put a pleated filter on a bypass system will eventually destroy the engine.

The bottom line is Wix messed up. They sold a filter that didn't work with the B oil system. They didn't sell that crap filter with a kit and instructions to install any orifice or tell anyone that you need to redesign your system for this filter to work. They just sold the wrong filter to unsuspecting customers. With that crap filter, even if you had installed a smaller orifice, now you would have some B/C/WD tractors with that filter and an orifice and some with that filter and no orifice and some with the old filter and no orifice and the new owner who just bought the tractor at the local auction yard wouldn't know which he had and probably wouldn't know there was ever a problem until he stuck that new filter on that doesn't work and figured his gauge just doesn't work and then he proceeds to ruin his engine.

So me not being an engineer would just step back and ask........ why couldn't they just make the right filter that fits my tractor so I can get my yard mowed without an overhaul expense. Making the right filter is the simple fix. Apply the KISS philosophy in this case.

Lonn wrote: So me not being an engineer would just step back and ask........ why couldn't they just make the right filter that fits my tractor so I can get my yard mowed without an overhaul expense. Making the right filter is the simple fix. Apply the KISS philosophy in this case.

actually Lonn , those 'engineers' should have been forced to REPAIR their own equipment ! Balers aren't the only things 'they've'  designed that are a nightmare to work on. We all have our pet peeves....
As for the oil filter discussion, my 57 Willys ran fine with a roll of toilet paper(new...) in the filter housing for miles. Even though I'm an Avionics Tech according to the paper hanging on the wall, common sense says if a 'system' ran fine for 40-50-60 years it doesn't NEED any modifications to run as designed. I'm all for 'tweaking' to get better performance if you want to fix the screwups 'engineers' make, like the idiotic heater controls on my 97 F150 !

Jay

Tcmtech, I'm just saying the easy fast fix was to make the right filter. I agree that your solution would fix your tractor but if those wrong filters were still made, unless someone told the customer to modify his system, the problem of ruined engines would still exist. If I were to redesign it I would throw the whole thing away, forget the bypass altogether and convert to full flow. It's not all that hard to do and you can't mix up filters because the base wouldn't accept the bypass filter unlike the Wix screw up where if one doesn't know about the problem, the wrong filter could be installed. To me it's just not worth messing with and for the novice, they could end up messing up the full flow conversion and make things worse. Overthinking a problem sometimes just doesn't work well.

Lonn wrote: Tcmtech, I'm just saying the easy fast fix was to make the right filter. I agree that your solution would fix your tractor but if those wrong filters were still made, unless someone told the customer to modify his system, the problem of ruined engines would still exist. If I were to redesign it I would throw the whole thing away, forget the bypass altogether and convert to full flow. It's not all that hard to do and you can't mix up filters because the base wouldn't accept the bypass filter unlike the Wix screw up where if one doesn't know about the problem, the wrong filter could be installed. To me it's just not worth messing with and for the novice, they could end up messing up the full flow conversion and make things worse. Overthinking a problem sometimes just doesn't work well.

Someone started a discussion about a  technical subject so I gave a technical answer regarding a way to get around the problem.  That's what engineering and technical advice is about.   Who likes or dislikes it for whatever reason is irrelevant in the equations and if they find raw technical information to be insulting, oh well.   

I didn't mind it! I thought is was rather informative and well worth the discussion over it.   Personally, I rather enjoy those types of videos where a common item is taken apart and analyzed  comparing how an old design worked Vs a new one and to what effect those changes have on the use of said item. 

Lonn wrote:  To each their own but I wasn't going after you for what you said about redesigning the oil system on a B. But the info is about 75 years too late to change all the B/C/WD/WC tractors already built.

Edited by Tcmtech - 11 Sep 2016 at 4:40am

If the aluminum isn't protected by some sort of coating it will corrode at least to make visible spots. My coated vintage Airstream did from moving it in the winter on salted roads.

In 2000 I purchased a '98 F150 with the 4.6 Triton engine used with 24K miles on it. I heard considerable engine rattle so I added a quart or two of Rotella 20W50  and that made it quiet.  A while later the owner's manual arrived and it insists on 5W20 semi synthetic because it says some clearances are too small to allow thicker oil to get in and lubricate. It has about 148K on it now and doesn't get run in the winter because the second heater core sprung a leak and its disconnected. The rattle of the light oil apparently hasn't caused any damage. It doesn't use oil yet.

I had a VW Golf that wanted OW20 oil. It allowed a 10K miles oil change interval with synthetic. It got two or three quarts low at less than 5K miles. I replaced a suspected cracked oil pan but that didn't cure the leaks. The next owner told me I had folded the pan gasket making it leak. It did OK with 5W20 semi synthetic until it acted like a Ford 5.4 and spit a plug. Its on its second owner since that event. I bought it with 40K miles and the plug spit at about 134K miles, not related to lubrication.

My latest wheels probably has a polished manifold and head. Its a 1 liter Fiesta hatch back ecoboost. 3 cylinders and claims 123 hp at 6500 RPM, turbocharged and direct injected. The computer cuts back on fuel right at 6500 on the tachometer, but it has better get up and go than the Golf did and the F150 that has 4.10 rear axle gears because with 3.08 gears and the narrow ratio manual transmission it wouldn't pull the hat off your head. It was rated at 2200 pounds trailer towing and I rate it at 4900 and have pulled 6000 on one occasion, measured at the elevator. The weird thing is that it gets the same 16 mpg after the gear change as it did before the gear change. They had the engine speed too low. Mileage does go down if I run it consistently above 80 mph.

Gerald J.

jaybmiller wrote: The main reason tractors( cars, trucks) don't get 'ported and polished' is cost !! Just think of the hours YOU spent doing it, Jay ps. If you can come up with a fix for the PTO lever O-ring on D-14s...I have 4 here to 'upgrade'....

Edited by Tcmtech - 11 Sep 2016 at 4:13pm

your still trying to FIX a problem that DONT EXIST.